Aussie Lapidary Forum

Fossicking and Rockhounding => Fossicking Locations => Topic started by: Rej on May 16, 2018, 03:08:34 PM

Title: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Rej on May 16, 2018, 03:08:34 PM
Hello all,

I've just bought a small Geiger counter kit and am now looking for places to hunt radioactive rocks, ideally around Brisbane or within a few hours drive from Brisbane.

The only "nearby" place I'm aware that has anything interesting is Torrington, which I've been told has Tobernite, (and that's definitely on my list next time I head down that way) but maybe someone knows a place that's closer? I haven't found much discussion on this in my searches. I've read some granites have higher than average concentrations of uranium ores, but I'm not sure if that applies to the formations nearby...

I have bits of zircon and topaz which are slightly above background radiation but I'd like to find something hotter than that.

And no, I'm not looking to stockpile or enrich anything. (move along ASIO / NSA)

Thanks for any info.

Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Aussie Sapphire on May 16, 2018, 04:40:41 PM
The person to ask is one of our members Plutonium (appropriate name).

http://aussielapidaryforum.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=443

He has a special interest in radioactive minerals.

cheers
Leah
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Rej on May 16, 2018, 06:15:32 PM
Indeed, he shows up in every mention of "radioactive" on this forum. I just thought I'd ask publicly instead of PM'ing for  the sake of visibility.

Of course I understand that posting collecting spots on a public forum potentially means lurkers seeing it and ruining it for everyone so I'm happy to accept PM's if it needs to be kept under wraps...
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Tailor marc on May 16, 2018, 06:27:32 PM
If your ever in WA let me now I know a place 400klm east of Perth if interested
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Gemster on May 16, 2018, 11:56:56 PM
At the end of WW2 there was quite an extensive search for Radioactive Minerals in the Torrington and Emmaville area, with quite a few minerals found... Gadens Mine was one place that was looked at... And just up the road(400m) was a Torbernite Mine... I have the Report somewhere about that search for RA Minerals... Dave Innes at Inverell also has a Collection of RA Minerals and a few of them are from local areas...

   Gemster.... beers
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Rej on May 17, 2018, 10:18:00 AM
Thanks guys.

Gemster, if you get a second, I'd love to see that report.

Ron at the Emmaville museum put some dots on the Torrington mud map for me last time I was down there about Tobernite near Blather Ck., but that's about it.

I'm just doing some Googling about Gaden's Mine and reading John's blog post on it, it seems there's lots of small old mines in the area that would be worth a look, thanks for the tip!
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Gemster on May 17, 2018, 12:05:14 PM
No worries Rej. ;)... PM me your Email address and I will send it to you.... Have you had a look on Mindat for RA minerals?.....

https://www.mindat.org/

  Gemster.... beers
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: starsapphire78 on May 18, 2018, 05:42:33 PM
 I have a few RA shinnies in my collection, Torbanite , and one other. Who's name I can not recall
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Plutonium on June 02, 2018, 06:34:49 PM
Sorry for the slow response guys, I haven't logged in much lately. A few other things taking up my time.
I mostly know the areas around SE Australia. Finding radioactive treasure in Australia can be surprisingly hard. One of the reasons is there seems to have been an effort to censor the information.

In NSW,
Blackfellows Dam near Nymagee is the most well known and hardest to find.
Other areas include Torrington, Cacoar, Toongi, Whipstick, Washpool, Watsons Creek.
I have also found some radioactive rocks around Broken Hill, but there seems to be no consistency.
It's like somebody just just dropped one at random on each dump.

Granite is always notorious for being radioactive, but it is generally very low unless you hold your geiger counter up to a large amount like a road cutting on the Moonbi batholith near Tamworth.

Thorium can be found at Torrington and North NSW and SEQ beaches have heavy mineral sands on them. You can usually find it at the northern end of beaches, the brown bands in the sand as you dig down.

Victoria basically has nothing. Lake Boga has some minor occurrences.

I haven't looked much into Queensland. Cloncurry is well known for radioactive minerals and the various Uranium mining operations give you a good place to start.

In South Australia there are a few locations to look. Radium hill is the most obvious, but it's on private property and you have to get permission. But it's not hard to find where the old railway branch line used to be and walking along the old narrow gauge track bed you can find ore all the way back to Port Pirie.

In NT there are a couple of areas that you can explore, but most of them are on mining or aboriginal land. Adelaide River has an old mine that is a bit of fun to explore. One of the mine shafts is only a short walk of a local road and you can easily find small amounts of metatorbinite in the dump.

WA there are a few places, but I've not done any research on the locations.

You will find radioactive minerals at the various lapidary and mineral shows.
Most people are used to seeing me and a few other friends lurking around with geiger counters.

But be prepared to get some strange looks and even stranger questions.
I'm always happy to answer people's questions. But occasionally I cross paths with a crystal healing hippie and they go into a kind of catatonic shock :D
 I have been asked to check crystals for "bad auras".  It still makes me laugh, but I'm more than happy to do it.


If you want practice finding radioactive stuff, then look no further than your local op shop or antiques store. There is all kinds of radioactive goodies to be found and you will often be surprised by what and how many things are radioactive. Leave no stone unturned. :)

Uranium glass, Radium Watches, Thorium Camera lenses, smoke detectors, welding rods, gas lantern mantels are some of the favourites.

It's important to be familiar with the sensitivity of your geiger counter and types of radiation because there are lots of variables.
   
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: tinker on June 03, 2018, 04:09:35 PM
Plutonium, Whipstick is not far from me, cross whipstick creek nearly every day on the way to Wyndham.  What radioactive rock is found around there,

Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Plutonium on June 03, 2018, 09:03:10 PM
Oh you really are going to test me. :)
My memory for places is excellent, but when you know how hard it is to find the actual information on NSW Uranium deposits, it is a real test.

Lucky I treasure this information as much as the minerals themselves.
This is from one of the sources I have.
"The Jingera Bismuth mins are located at Whipstick, 23km west of Pambula. The deposits which include the Mount Metallic and Pheasants Nest workings are irregular pipe veins up to six metres in diameter in granite. A large quantity of Bismuth and Molybdenite has been produced. Silver values were high in a few places and some of the Molybdenite ore is appreciably radioactive, a little Uranium mineral being present."

I haven't found the other articles yet, but from memory small amounts of Torbernite have been found there.   
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Rej on June 04, 2018, 03:30:24 PM
Thanks Plutonium, my research so far has yielded the same conclusion so far: very hard to find info and very few places... :'(

I guess I expected there to be more localities since you hear so much about Uranium mining and how Aus has the largest reserves of it in the world... sucks that it's mostly all in 2-3 spots!

I've read the old mining reports on Emmaville / Torrington that Gemster sent me, plus a few others I found online and I'm definitely going to do some investigating that way when I head down in a few weeks.

I'm also planning a exploration visit to Stradbroke Is. to concentrate and collect some minerals sands, hopefully the Thorium concentration is high enough to register.

I did go to the Lismore show with my Geiger counter kit and waved it around any rock I was allowed to, finally stumbling on Peter Beckwith who was happy to pull out his "hot specimen tray" for me. I picked up a small piece of Davidite from SA from him which really gets the meter going ;D

I actually managed to scare my first hippy while scanning Peter's specimens. He came over and asked what we were doing, my friend answered "He's buying radioactive rocks". Apparently the guy then recoiled, put his hands out in a futile attempt to shield from the gammas and walked away pretty quickly. Hehe.  beers

I've also been to my local op-shop and did find an old British tea saucer that had a suspicious glowing yellow glaze on the porcelain. Only 3-4 times background but still produced some clicks. The guy working there was very accommodating when I asked for permission to wave my little black box over his wares and was genuinely happy when I found something. (He joked he'd put a radioactive sign on it and bump up the price) No depression glassware unfortunately. I'm more into rocks anyway.

I've ordered a pancake detector tube (SBT10a) to use as an external probe for my kit so hopefully that arrives before the trip to New England.

I'll update this thread with my findings. Thanks everyone.


Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Plutonium on June 04, 2018, 07:44:26 PM
Welcome to the club, you sound like you've got a good handle on it already.
Peter probably mentioned me when you saw him. I was the first person to surprise him with a geiger counter. He'll tell you all kinds of stories about the crystal healing hippies and my adventures with them.
 While I consider them to be a little out of touch with reality, they are nice people. Some of them have learned a bit about nuclear physics from me. Others have just come to realise that I'm not out to get them, not unless they say something dangerously stupid.

I've been to Lismore a couple of times. I didn't go this year. Most shows the geiger counter doesn't bother anybody because it doesn't touch or damage minerals. And most stall owners are interested to know what is radioactive. I often tell them what I find and how it compares as well as sharing information about specific minerals and their radioactivity.
 Peter doesn't even have to open the boxes, I just wave the counter over them and pull out the box that matters :D

I'm pretty good at picking out radioactive minerals even without the counter, but I do not overlook anything. I would not normally stop to check opals, but every now and then if I see something different or unusual I will check.  The last surprise I got was megalodon teeth.

A few of us are on the radioactive facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/948692475251637/



Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Rej on June 06, 2018, 09:38:40 PM
So I went to North Stradbroke today with my little one, hunting for Thorium. Read all about it here if you're interested:

http://aussielapidaryforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=6232.0

Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Rej on July 10, 2018, 09:56:19 AM
Just an update here if anyone is following along.

I've just gotten back from a rainy school holidays trip to Inverell / Torrington / Emmaville and I'm happy to report I've found something radioactive! It might not look like much but the small green crystals growing on these altered quartz pieces are meta-Torbernite (hydrated copper uranium phosphate)

(https://i.imgur.com/E8dGKQV.jpg?2)

They were found at Gaden's copper mine north of Emmaville. One piece looked like it had been left behind in the "car park" by someone on the Gemorama field trip, so thanks to that person and maybe check your specimens to see if you've got transparent green crystals on the pieces you did take home!

Many thanks to those who helped with info about the area (Gemster) and HUGE thanks to Lord Thunda who took time out to show a couple of ALFers around his neck of the woods on Saturday, absolute top bloke!  beers

Here's a video of the torbernite crystals producing some clicks on the Geiger counter for those who are into videos of rocks and clicks.  ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPEewCtU33s

Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Jimnyjerry on July 10, 2018, 01:27:33 PM
Well done Rej. And good on you Bob.  :)
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Gem Ranger on July 11, 2018, 11:57:19 AM
Nice one Rej. What are the readings like on harts range zircon and nuked electric blue topaz?

GR
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Rej on July 11, 2018, 03:23:45 PM
Hart's range zircon shows a small increase from background, not the kind of thing that would show well in a video. On a 3 minute average, I get 128 counts per minute for background at home using my most sensitive probe. After 3 minutes on the zircon, I get 190 counts, so not even twice background but still technically "radioactive".

On light blue from Mt Surprise and Tasmania, I get a barely statistical increase from background, about 140 counts.

I have some super-nuked blue topaz from Brazil but that gives off no extra radiation, I think they let it cool off before selling or maybe I don't have enough pieces for it to register.
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Plutonium on July 11, 2018, 07:50:55 PM
Cooked topaz is left to cool off after it is taken from the reactor.
Depending on what isotope is activated to create the colour would be a determining factor in how long it takes for that isotope to decay.  I've been asked to check Topaz and some other cooked gems over the years, but not of them have been detectable.

It would be nice to get a group of my radioactive hunting friends together to walk around Torrington for a good treasure hunt.
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: starsapphire78 on July 11, 2018, 08:18:55 PM
Please excuse , my ignorance , but why nuke Topaz ?
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Orange Pirate on July 11, 2018, 08:53:32 PM
Please excuse , my ignorance , but why nuke Topaz ?


To make it blue. Very little topaz is naturally blue. And if it is, it's a light blue. So pretty much all blue topaz you see has been nuked.


Quote
The most commonly irradiated gemstone is topaz, which becomes blue after the process.[3] Blue topaz is very rare in nature and almost always the result of artificial irradiation.[12] According to the American Gem Trade Association, approximately 30 million carats (6,000 kg (13,000 lb)) of topaz are irradiated every year globally, 40 percent of which were done in the United States as of 1988.[13] As of 2011, no topaz is neutron irradiated in the US; major treatment areas are Germany and Poland.[citation needed] A lot of linear accelerated treatment is done in Bangkok


from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemstone_irradiation
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Plutonium on July 12, 2018, 10:15:42 PM
Please excuse , my ignorance , but why nuke Topaz ?

You might be shocked how many gems are "cooked".
It was quite common about 20 years ago for diamonds to be cooked to artificially improve them.

Topaz is just the most well known because so much of it is not naturally blue and most people are aware it's cooked in nuclear reactors.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemstone_irradiation

Neutron activation is the most common. When isotopes re neutron activated, it's the old philosophers stone, alchemy that one element is changed to another. This dopes the host matrix mineral changing it's colour.
 The new isotope is usually radioactive so it is given time to decay (>5 half lives) and it is no longer radioactive.

Electron activation sounds like spallation. It's bit different, but can also make a gemstone radioactive. The high energy knocks protons or neutrons from the atom transmutating it.

Gamma radiation is the kind of thing they used on diamonds. It doesn't transmutate the material, like it doesn't change lead into gold as in the above examples. Instead it chemically changes the structure of the mineral. It's similar to heating it in a furnace but without risking the gem getting physically hot and it suffering from heat stress fracturing.

The one I didn't know what alpha activation of diamonds to make them green.
I've got a few spare alpha particles, I need to find me some cheap diamonds to play with.
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Gem Ranger on July 14, 2018, 04:04:39 PM
Thanks heaps Rej, that's been a nagging question for me for ages. I appreciate finally having that one answered  :D
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Lord_Thunda on July 16, 2018, 10:04:50 PM
So glad you had a great time Rej! It was a pleasure meeting you all & taking you to Gadens. Seeing the happiness when you found that Torbernite was priceless. [size=0px] [/size]
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: RockyRockRouter1973 on August 28, 2019, 11:53:47 AM
If you're still looking, you can try my place...
I have (had) a radioactive specimen in my collection but I can't find it.. (atleast I did, it's either here with me or back where I grew up, or lost in one of the few moves I've done over the years)
Hopefully it's in the bottom of the bucket. I've thought about asking a highschool or uni if I could borrow theirs, but been too lazy to go and ask.

(and for those asking wtf-in regards to the school/uni question, when I went to school our science dept had a Geiger counter and that was last milenium, so not so silly
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Rej on September 02, 2019, 03:12:11 PM
Hey. I'm still around. If you're near Brisbane, I can probably arrange to bring some detection equipment over to help you look for it.

Do you know which mineral it was?

Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Fullerton on September 02, 2019, 09:38:05 PM
Mary Kathleen is an obvious site (I didn't read through all the responses, so apologies if already mentioned) ... supposed to be plenty of hot rocks still there and publicaly accessible - though in NW Qld and 1800km from Brisbane.


Another NW Qld site is the Milo deposit about 100m north of the Barkly Highway, about 40km west of Cloncurry. From memory, this site was gouged and a 5 tonne sample taken decades ago. A uranium ore is still present as small greenish - yellow pieces.  This site still has prospects for rare earths and uranium ores.
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Rej on September 03, 2019, 12:09:25 AM
Thanks Fullerton, yes Mary Kathleen is high on my list.. one day. Thanks for the tip on Milo, look to be very close to MK. Hopefully I can make it there before it goes under lease.
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: FlashGP on September 11, 2019, 08:17:17 PM
Hi Rej,
Keep this up and you'll have men in black suits with dark sunglasses and earpieces visiting you.

regards
GP
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Plutonium on September 24, 2019, 09:22:36 PM
Keep this up and you'll have men in black suits with dark sunglasses and earpieces visiting you.

The standard joke here is that when the ACMA comes to the front door for an inspection they get asked, "Are you here for ionising or non-ionising radiation?"
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: FlashGP on September 25, 2019, 07:12:33 AM
I didn't know such a body took an interest in hobbiests
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: darttrev68 on October 06, 2019, 02:29:07 PM
An update on some of the South Australian locations.

Davidite is found at Radium Hill and other locations throughout the Olary District. On Plumbago Station there are two locations where crystals of Davidite can be found - Billeroo and Mount Victoria. Also on Plumbago Station is Absite (Thorian Brannerite) at Crocker Well and Samarskite can be found near Mount Victoria.

Radium Hill is no longer able to be visited, only members of the Radium Hill Historical Society have permission and this is restricted. Plumbago Station can be visited via special arrangement with the Pastoral Company who own it.

The other location for uranium minerals is Arkaroola - Mount Gee. Torbernite is found at the Number 6 Workings. Fossicking is not allowed on Arkaroola any more, however if the samples are for scientific research there may be a chance to collect a few small pieces. Access to the workings is via a 6km hike in from Echo Camp.
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Rej on July 04, 2020, 07:26:27 PM
A late thank you darttrev68 for that info. I see you've got some nice davidite specimens on your store...

We've been travelling around QLD for the school holidays and managed to go visit the old Mary Kathleen mine today.

For anyone following my quest, there are definitely still specimens to be found there. Nothing too flash as for as pretty minerals, but plenty of pitchblende (uranium oxides) laying around. Easy to find with basic detector instruments.

Here's me in front of the beautiful scenery proudly holding some ore I found with my home-made scintillation counter.

 (http://aussielapidaryforum.com/forum/gallery/9/medium_51035-040720191343.jpeg) (http://aussielapidaryforum.com/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=9260)

Tomorrow I'll try to access the Milo deposit to see what can be found there.
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Plutonium on July 10, 2020, 08:53:30 PM
Yeah, I'm going to have to go for a drive out there sometime soon.
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Bucket on July 15, 2020, 06:07:59 PM
Great photo Rej. Now I'm disappointed I didn't get out there a couple of years ago, looks like a great spot to visit.
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Plutonium on September 28, 2022, 07:27:58 PM
I just showed Xan the Cloncurry picture and they didn't see you, all they saw was rocks and a place to swim !!!
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Plutonium on September 16, 2023, 03:28:11 PM
What did or Did you find on your latest trip to Broken Hill Rej?
I've got a few new sites I need to check out and I think they'll turn up a bit of Davidite.
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Rej on September 18, 2023, 10:39:01 AM
I didn't manage to get to Plumbago Station as they'd just received crazy rains that resulted in bogs. The station owner asked me not to go so I respected that.

I did manage to stop off the side of the highway where the old train track merged in from the Radium Hill mine. I only stopped for 20 minutes but found a few pieces of Davidite ore from RH, one with carnotite  ;D.

(https://aussielapidaryforum.com/forum/gallery/9/medium_51035-180923102507-99061917.jpeg)[/url]

These were found with a new, small survey meter I made that uses a small CsI(Tl) crystal matched to a mini PMT, and hooked up to an Arduino-based counter
(https://aussielapidaryforum.com/forum/gallery/9/medium_51035-180923102509-99112232.jpeg)

I also found a few loose Davidite crystals at a dump site outside BH, probably rejects from Billeroo.
(https://aussielapidaryforum.com/forum/gallery/9/medium_51035-180923103658.jpeg)
If nothing else, it was exciting to hunt them and dig them up using the sensitive probe. I'd start getting clicks a meter away from a 1/2" davidite xtal!

I'll be going back soon, so feel free to msg me here or on FB for those new sites.  beers
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Gemster on September 18, 2023, 08:06:11 PM
Are any of your specimens Fluorescent  under True UV light ?  Just curious... :)


 Gemster... beers
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Rej on September 18, 2023, 08:14:54 PM
Not much on the ones from the Olary area, a bit of green secondaries crust on some, but nothing exciting.

The stuff from Beltana zinc mine though (not radioactive), that's another story under SW UV ...
(https://aussielapidaryforum.com/forum/gallery/9/medium_51035-180923201408.jpeg) (https://aussielapidaryforum.com/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=9914)
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Gemster on September 21, 2023, 04:43:56 PM
  :o  Wow Rej... They are the best i have seen from Beltana for ages. :D ..
  I have some pieces here but are not as good as yours... They are quite large. 2-4 kg.. Do You think it would it be better if i sliced the rock ?
  Do you think that it would expose the Fluorescent Minerals more ?
 They look a bit 'dull' on my small SW Uv torch.. ???


  Gemster... beers
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Rej on September 21, 2023, 05:55:47 PM
Cheers. It's hard to tell from the picture but these are quite small (2-4cm) but indeed very nice. These were pieces of ore we found a bit further south, where they used to load the trains. Much richer than what we found near the mine.

Since they were so small, I ran them through the tumbler with some soap for just a few hours to expose fresh surface. That worked really well. I didn't have much luck with the one specimen I sliced...

I did have some luck cracking off fresh faces on my larger pieces. It's hit and miss whether you get something good, but it always brighter than the weathered surface
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Rej on September 25, 2023, 11:11:05 AM
They look a bit 'dull' on my small SW Uv torch.. ???

I missed this comment about the UV torch so I'll add this: The stuff from Beltana is quite disappointing if all you have is a torch. I built up a bunch of different single LED + quad LED SW and MW torches in anticipation of my trip to the Flinders and found them to be borderline useless at spotting anything good when it came to weathered rocks.

The picture above (and most of my hunting) was done using a big 35W SW lamp which produces 9W of UV. If you consider that the large UV LEDs put out 0.5W of UV and the small ones 0.1W, it's not hard to see why...

Once cleaned up, the torches are "ok" to view in a dark room, but nothing like how they light up NJ willemite in broad daylight.
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Gemster on September 29, 2023, 03:40:55 PM
Thanks Rej... Time will tell if i have something great... Im building my own  UV light that will be used for my cabinet... But like all things, It takes time...


  Gemster... beers
Title: Re: Places to find radioactive rocks?
Post by: Plutonium on October 01, 2023, 05:35:46 PM
Most Australian Radioactive rocks don't Fluoresce or glow under UV light.
Davidite and Carnotite that tend to come from the Radium Hill region specifically don't glow.
The ones that do tend to come from the immediate area around Ranger Mine.

I've also been having a bit of a laugh at some old Australian mineral identification requests and any time a yellow mineral turns up, somebody suggests it's "Yellowcake". Given that yellowcake isn't a mineral. It's processed Uranum oxide and there isn't even a mineral that is close to it chemically.  Carnotite which frequently gets mis-labled yellowcake is a Vandinate. 
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