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Author Topic: Advice wanted  (Read 10046 times)

ElectricBlue

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Advice wanted
« on: July 16, 2012, 02:08:00 PM »
I've had an offer that's hard to refuse on buying a near new Graves Mark 1V faceting machine with all the gear but I don't know anyone else who has one of these machines to know how good they may or may not be, so can anyone tell me what they're like?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 02:36:18 PM by ElectricBlue »
When all else fails, read the instructions.

pete

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Re: Advice wanted
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2012, 09:16:50 AM »
 I'm not personally familiar with the Graves mIV  but  If you're new to faceting it's unlikely the manufacturing aspects of the Graves will make any difference as compared to other quality machines. Experienced facettors will develop their preferences often based on what machine they learned on but I doubt there will be any argument as to whether or not you can produce an extremely good quality stone on the Graves.
 What you should check for is that all bearings and bushes are in good order and that there is no slop in the machine.
Also check for obvious misalignment to the mast.  0ther alignment issues probably won't show up til you start cutting but that's part of the art of cutting.  Another area to check is the quill and dop attachment to ensure no over tightening is required to secure the dop.
 The main thing in faceting is lap quality and is where most people have trouble by struggling with poor quality laps.
 But if you have an offer you 'can't refuse' then I would think go for it and enjoy the hobby. You can always update machines later as you gain experience.

Aussie Sapphire

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Re: Advice wanted
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2012, 09:51:12 AM »
Graves have always been at the more budget end of the market so in the older models, build quality has not been quite as smooth as some of the more expensive brands.  But there are absolutely heaps and heaps of people in the US who have learned on these and if you can get on to a good deal, then it is a way of jumping into the hobby without breaking the bank.

BUT - one good thing about them is that they can be very easily updated to a 5XL faceting head at a later date if you ever wanted to do an upgrade.  Most manufacturers are reluctant to sell only the faceting head from a machine but Graves are quite happy to do this and it is an option if your base is in good order.  Noting that the main expense is in the engineering and manufacturing of the faceting head so that part constitutes most of the cost of a machine BUT it can allow you to use a base that is still in good condition.

Be wary of second hand laps - they can cause some grief so dont pay too much extra for that type of item in the package.

Is the machine left-handed?  For some reason, Graves did left handed machines in some models.  If you are learning from someone who is used to working right-handed, that can be something to be aware of.

Parts and accessories are readily available.  Something to look out for when buying other used machines that have been discontinued - we get a lot of enquiries like this from people with old Hall faceting machines.  Great machines but can be difficult to buy some parts/accessories - this would not a problem with the Graves.

good luck,

cheers
Leah
Aussie Sapphire - The Lapidary Warehouse

mehoose

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Re: Advice wanted
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2012, 10:16:54 AM »
Don't want to know the price of the one offered but I'll just chime in on the new 5XL from Aussie Sapphire.
Dude, it's only 2K for the machine brand new with warranty through Aussie Sapphire and they still have a couple for immediate shipping.
Seen exceptional gems cut on it, has the digital readout. Think the only thing it doesn't have is a reverse switch. Some guys do put one in if they have the know how.

Of course you'd need new laps but as a starter you have good quality laps to select from and from memory that would be about $500.
Keep em comin!!!

Aussie Sapphire

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Re: Advice wanted
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2012, 11:03:15 AM »
Dude, it's only 2K for the machine brand new with warranty through Aussie Sapphire and they still have a couple for immediate shipping.

Actually those 2 are in transit - should be here any day.

Dont want to talk someone out of a good deal on a second hand machine but the 5XL head does offer a good upgrade path if you want to down the track.

Pete's advice on what to check for in a used machine is good for any make/model - if it checks out ok, then go for it.  Use the money saved to buy other stuff  ;D

But the new machine and the high dollar does give new faceters a cheaper way into the hobby than we have seen previously and feedback has been good on these ones so that is a plus.

cheers
Leah
Aussie Sapphire - The Lapidary Warehouse

steveo

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Re: Advice wanted
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2012, 11:08:39 AM »
I took my first class in faceting on a Graves left hand machine and it wasn't a problem for me. When I bought my new 5XL I thought about a left handed one but decided if I sell it it would be better if it was a right hand.
Steve

Andrew

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Re: Advice wanted
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2012, 05:12:29 PM »
Hi all,
 Sorry I have been a bit missing from Forum posts,
building a much larger warehouse and keeping the orders flowing but its going to be great when finished ;)
 We did sell the old mark 1V but stopped as they are very basic in the Head,may still have a place but the 5XL Facet head designed by Jon Rolfe (gearloose) has made at last a affordable Faceting machine that is providing very accurate results.
  Its rewarding that out of all the 5Xl machines sold to date we have only had one faulty Transfer Jig but thats a good result as we hear quick about problems hotthirsty
 Anyway as always we are hear to fix anything unexpected.
Cheers Andrew
 

ElectricBlue

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Re: Advice wanted
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2012, 11:54:00 PM »
Thank you one and all for your comments.
The machine I'm looking at is a right hander and has only been used for around 3-4 hours and has a mk5 head on it.
The seller has only used this machine as a demo job at one gem show somewhere after he bought it directly from the USA, and for reasons understood only to himself decided he disliked it intently.
The fact that he owes me some very big favours is being reflected in the price to me.

My concern was that if someone like him had something against these machines they might be a load of junk. The asking price to me only is less than half the price I've recently seen them advertised for sale at, but if the brand was rubbish no price would be a bargain.

I've had very limited experience in faceting so I don't have any true idea of what I needed to be on the lookout for, but at least now my mind sits a fair bit easier thanks to the advice I've received here, so I think I'll be getting back to the seller tomorrow morning to say we have a deal.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 02:40:17 PM by ElectricBlue »
When all else fails, read the instructions.

Andrew

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Re: Advice wanted
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2012, 07:37:21 AM »

 We spend more time on answering Faceting machine questions then any other Lapidary product.Its mostly because
of the very strong Brand Loyalties in certain regions often extending to hatred of any machine that is not a "XYZ" like mine ::)
 
 If this owner has only used the machine for 3-4 hours I suggest he has not even tried to get to no how to use the machine properly.Every Faceting Machine even sometimes among the same Brand has a slightly different feel and owners need to be prepared to learn to get the best out of any machine,this takes time and practice. 

Cheers Andrew

 

Aussie Sapphire

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Re: Advice wanted
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2012, 08:28:52 AM »
As Andrew points out, every machine has its own quirks and will feel a bit different to another make.  We have had customers who have found it difficult to adjust to switching to another type (in all directions) and others who enjoy the process.

This sounds like a bit of an extreme reaction but his loss is your gain - I would jump on a deal like that.

Often it helps to get advice from others who are using the same kind of machine.  We have got a few out there now but a lot of them have gone to beginner faceters.  If you want some good advice or even just some inspiration from really good faceters who can turn out a fantastic result on this machine, I suggest you also check out Gemology Online.

There are some threads on the 5XL and you will be very welcome to ask questions there as well - might even see some familiar names  8)

http://www.gemologyonline.com/Forum/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=8

cheers
Leah
Aussie Sapphire - The Lapidary Warehouse

pete

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Re: Advice wanted
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2012, 08:56:55 AM »
Ditto Andrew and Leah
 Its a bit like which is the best car to do 100 kmh.  They all do! And you don't need lots of bells and whistles to do that.
 Don't you just love a good bargain!

ElectricBlue

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Re: Advice wanted
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2012, 09:57:29 AM »
I was onto the seller first thing, so the deal is done now.

I recently retired as a mines surveying engineer so I'm now looking forward to spending some time playing with the mountains of gemstones I've collected over my working life and maybe turn one or two into something my wife will be proud to wear on her fingers or whatever instead of nagging at me about my wanting to build yet another even bigger shed to house the lot  ;D
All I need do now is learn how to turn out a decent job of some of it before she forces me to start getting rid of a lot of it. There's rocks in those sheds I haven't seen in years now.
I think if I only got a dollar per carat for all of it I'd be a multi millionaire but I sure as hell ain't gonna be telling she-who-must-be-obeyed that. She sees it all as a pile of junk the way it looks right now and reckons I've always had rocks between my ears for bringing more home all the while.

I collected some nice rocks around the world over 40 years, including some handy sized diamonds while I was in Namibia and South Africa that they didn't search my pockets for before I left the work sites, but they kind of scare me when it comes to faceting work for the time being at least.
I have small mountains of sapphires, rubies and emeralds etc. but have never had the spare time at home to do anything with them while I was working as it was always the same old story of packing my bags to head off somewhere else before I ever got the chance to unpack them properly.
One thing that could be good from that sort of lifestyle though is that when you only get to set eyes on your missus now and then you don't bother wasting any of it arguing  ;)
When all else fails, read the instructions.

chookie2

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Re: Advice wanted
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2012, 10:48:29 AM »
LOl Electric blue but what a joy to have something like that to argue about!  ;D

Enjoy your retirement get the missus a nice stone done and it will melt away- carat by carat - she will probably egg you on in the end. I would! beers
Happy Fossicking from Chookie

Geology Rocks, I really dig it.
My rocks are gneiss, don’t take them for granite.

ElectricBlue

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Re: Advice wanted
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2012, 12:02:02 PM »
There's one particular diamond I literaly picked up off the beach in the Namib coastal desert long before they began mining the area that I'd like to turn into something for my wife Chookie but I'm a long way off knowing how to make a good job of it yet. I had it assessed some years back and was told it was worth around a hundred grand then, so God alone knows what'd be worth by now some 10-15 years down the track.
I thought about getting it cut for me at one time but never got around to sorting it out because I kept getting dragged off to another chunk of dirt somewhere else in the world for months at a time so it's now my target once I know what I'm about a lot more.
I've even got a fair amount of gold to go with it that I picked up around the world over the years. I did sell a bit of that off now and then over the years but there's still enough left to keep me busy for the rest of my life with turning it into jewellery.

My B-I-L thinks I'm off my head for leaving the stuff just sitting around for so long but for me it wasn't a question of the value of it all but the fun I had in finding it as I went, and the yarns that I can now tell you to go with each find. Mind you, most of them you wouldn't believe if I told ya. They even sound far fetched to me at times, and I was the one picking it up off the dirt, quite literally more than once  :D

I've been trying to find a DVD or two on faceting etc. to help me along the way a bit but can't seem to find a decent one that takes you through from a very beginner, so any help in that direction on offer would be greatly appreciated as there's no-one around my way to teach the job, only very basic cabbing and that has big limitations for me even though I could sink a battleship with huge chunks of various stuff for that kind of thing out in one of my sheds.
I've got chunks of Rose Quartz and other stuff the size of your head out there but there's only just so much I can do  in the cabbing side of things before your cabbed out bigtime and what do you do with the lot afterward anyway?
When all else fails, read the instructions.

scratchie

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Re: Advice wanted
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2012, 01:42:12 PM »
Electric Blue ,
Don't want to rain on your parade but you won't be faceting a diamond on the machine you've bought. If you want a good book to start with get " Cutting Gemstones - a beginners guide to faceting " by Broadfoot and Collins. Available direct from John Broadfoot or from the Australian Facetors Guild
Welcome to the world of faceting
John

 

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