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Author Topic: Incoming GST changes to destroy collectors  (Read 1004 times)

Dean76

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Incoming GST changes to destroy collectors
« on: May 19, 2017, 10:27:36 AM »
Confirmed yesterday with the ATO and Customs Barterfarce  that all purchases via EDP electronic distribution platform like eBay will attract 10% GST when buying or selling via EDP. ALL purchases and the gst will be added to total including postage and any import duties that would be owing!!!!!!!!!WTF This really really really SUCKS and will wipe out hobby collection via 10% unfair grab at collecting by the  liberal party. This tax change designed to protect Harvey Norman will now add 20% tax cost to any hobby buying or selling. LNP taxing hobbies and collecting with a in effect additional 20% tax . REALLY malcum turncoat anf the liberals are nothing short of timeshare salesmen.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 10:50:55 AM by Dean76 »

MakkyBrown

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Re: Incoming GST changes to destroy collectors
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2017, 04:50:14 PM »
Confirmed yesterday with the ATO and Customs Barterfarce  that all purchases via EDP electronic distribution platform like eBay will attract 10% GST when buying or selling via EDP. ALL purchases and the gst will be added to total including postage and any import duties that would be owing!!!!!!!!!WTF This really really really SUCKS and will wipe out hobby collection via 10% unfair grab at collecting by the  liberal party. This tax change designed to protect Harvey Norman will now add 20% tax cost to any hobby buying or selling. LNP taxing hobbies and collecting with a in effect additional 20% tax . REALLY malcum turncoat anf the liberals are nothing short of timeshare salesmen.
I don't think it's going to wipe it out but just can't seen how it going to work. Apparently, from what I was reading the seller has to be turning over $75000 before they have to collect gst. So it shouldn't affect smaller ebay sellers.
I buy heaps of $1-2 electronic components out of china though ebay I really hope it doesn't turnoff sellers from dealing with Australia. I reckon the whole thing is going to turn into big mess.
We are a family of 4 from Southern Tasmania.

Aussie Sapphire

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Re: Incoming GST changes to destroy collectors
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2017, 05:43:43 PM »
Ebay and Amazon are still arguing about it and I would be very surprised if the new rules come into place by July 1st.


What the government wants to do is collect GST on every imported purchase - not just the ones over $1000.  In the case of small sellers, it is currently extremely impractical to collect GST on these small orders as they enter the country.  So the Government has decided to get round this by making Ebay collect the GST instead. Clearly Ebay are very unhappy about this because they quite correctly argue that they are just providing the marketplace and not actually selling the goods themselves.


If it goes ahead, it will be a straight 10% added on any Ebay purchase from overseas but I think there is still some more arguing to go yet. 


For any seller that is registered for the GST (ie. anyone who sells more than $75k per year), it should not affect them apart from the massive inconvenience that will be caused by customs not being able to handle the extra volume of transactions - this is not to be underestimated!!  We import quite a bit and pay GST on most - but anything that goes through the post is a bloody hassle due to the completely inefficient system. But any large seller is used to this and will already be managing the process.


If you buy from Australian sellers, it will not affect you as they will either be already registered for the GST or have a sales volume less than the limit and therefore not be required to collect the tax.


If the plan goes ahead, it will only affect purchases from overseas sellers.


I suggest people should just wait and see what happens with this. There may be some tweaks to the plan if the government actually sees sense about the logistics of it all.


cheers
Leah

Aussie Sapphire - The Lapidary Warehouse

FlashGP

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Re: Incoming GST changes to destroy collectors
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2017, 06:04:29 PM »
It is about time.  I can't see how it has been very fair on Australian businesses so far, especially the nuche players like jewllery suppliers who have to compete at a 10% price dissadvantage.

The O/S sellers don't have to provide the same consumer guarantees as Australian sellers and the difficulty in making a warranty claim is a dissincenrive to making a claim on an os seller.

It is about time we stopped the me mentality and adopted a mates system.  The substance is big offshore entities hide behinf legal fictions and jurisdictional rules to rape and pillage our small businesses in the name of the consumer.  If let go to the extreme we as a society will have no rules or jobs. Ee will be governed by the heard mentality an the me think.

Sorry if I am a bit radical but we as hobbiests get a lot of advice and assistance from our local suppliers which we won't get if emwe drive them out of business supporting foreign sellers because we can save a few bucks GST.  Too much me in going O/S.
Yours Sincerely
Flash (Gordon)

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Re: Incoming GST changes to destroy collectors
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2017, 06:24:49 PM »
You make a lot of good points FlashGP.


Certainly can be a bit difficult to compete on price when the 10% discount is automatically built in to overseas.  What probably hurts us more when people compare prices is the reliance in USA on drop shipping.  This really bugs us and what makes us a bit scared about the effect of Amazon coming into the market.


When people can just sell stuff on Amazon/Ebay without ever investing $$ in stock, never supporting warranty and just sending any problem to the manufacturer and rarely get really skilled up in product knowledge by drop shipping everything, THAT is difficult to compete against.  This way of selling is quite dominant in the USA - we dont see as much in Australia but I hope it doesnt go that way because it doesnt work well for consumers in the long run and makes it difficult for sellers who try to do the right thing.


We actually get lots of enquiries from USA customers wanting to buy stuff that we import from the USA - it happens because so many dealers over there never actually bother to keep stock - they just list it and then send out from factory eventually. Seems crazy.

I think the OP's point about collecting is a bit different to our situation - lot more one-off stuff in that type of market that might not be easy to source in Australia and/or lots of small sellers.  What I see is that it will just push everyone over to private buying/selling on Facebook where there is almost no buyer protection, undervaluing in the post (risky if parcel gets lost) and potential of scams.


When we consider our tax bill, it would certainly be nice if the big guys paid their fair share (Apple, Google, etc).  Even if they could claw back just a bit of that revenue that gets shifted to low-tax havens, it would help ALL of us.  Only fair I think but appears to be in the too-hard basket.


cheers
Leah
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 06:27:03 PM by Aussie Sapphire »
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FlashGP

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Re: Incoming GST changes to destroy collectors
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2017, 07:15:08 PM »
I am just waiting for Amazon to say, " but our servers are in the US so thatis where the transaction happens, ergo we don't need to pay Australian taxes or play by Australia's rules.  Lets call ourselves disruptors and do an Uber, re-write the rules to suit ourselves".

Sorry there is too much me in that thinking.
Yours Sincerely
Flash (Gordon)

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Re: Incoming GST changes to destroy collectors
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2017, 08:04:19 AM »
I am just waiting for Amazon to say, " but our servers are in the US so thatis where the transaction happens, ergo we don't need to pay Australian taxes or play by Australia's rules.  Lets call ourselves disruptors and do an Uber, re-write the rules to suit ourselves".

Yes - this is why I would be very surprised if it all happens on July 1st.  Lots more arguing to go I think.

Cheers
Leah
Aussie Sapphire - The Lapidary Warehouse

Gemster

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Re: Incoming GST changes to destroy collectors
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2017, 07:42:12 PM »
Both Amazon and Ebay have both stated 'If this goes through, We WILL Block Australian Buyers from our Sites" and China has stated 'We are Not Australian Tax Collectors and Never will be"
  This Decision Has NOT even gone through Parliament yet. So I don't this will come about.. Yet.. :-\

 As for this Buy Australian crap... If Aussie Sellers were 'Reasonably' priced I would buy from Them... But They aren't... $15 for 1 Stone... no way, compared to Better Quality and $5 for 15 Stones...yes please... Ebay all the way I say...  ;D
   Now I am talking about Stones and Minerals... Not Gemstones..
 If Aussie Sellers Stoped ripping off Mr Mineral Collector then things May change... >:(

 Somehow I doubt that will ever happen...

  Gemster.... beers
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 07:45:13 PM by Gemster »
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harryopal

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Re: Incoming GST changes to destroy collectors
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2017, 11:44:50 PM »
As a buyer of stones and gemstones for a small business I had been doing this before Costello as Treasurer introduced the arrangement that imported purchases under $1000 would not attract tax. And, as he said himself, if he were importing he would just make sure any orders were under $1000.
Previously a package arrived and you would receive a notice from Customs. You then had to fill in a form and send it to Customs which would add the GST and then you got your items. Clearly this meant that costs for Customs clearance of the many thousands of packages far exceeded the income and that is why the under $1000 clearance system was introduced.
The irony is that the reintroduction of the tax is a political ploy to appease Australian companies such as Harvey Norman. What makes it ironic is that theoretically it flies in the face of "free trade". Clearly it is difficult and often impossible for Australian lapidary suppliers to compete with countries which have extremely low wage structures.
I recently closed a business in Townsville from which I sold rocks and gems at the lower end of the price spectrum. I also made and sold jewellery at a modest profit being able to buy low cost gemstones and material without the extra tax. Clearly I moved on at a good time.

Gemster

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Re: Incoming GST changes to destroy collectors
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2017, 03:05:49 PM »
I would have liked to Visit your Shop, Harryopal..... I remember when you posted about having to close up your Shop...   :'(

  Gemster... beers
I swing a 12-pound hammer,smash gibbers by the ton
I used to think it convict work,but now i think it's FUN

Aussie Sapphire

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Re: Incoming GST changes to destroy collectors
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2017, 03:49:17 PM »
I would have liked to Visit your Shop, Harryopal.....

But would you have purchased anything?  Or would it all have been too expensive compared to cheap stuff on Ebay (eg. 15 stones for $5).  Local shops cannot survive without customers and if everyone is chasing the very cheapest price without thought to the bigger picture, then it is that much more likely that businesses will not survive.

Everyone is free to find the very cheapest price they can - it has consequences though (some of which may not be immediately apparent). 

cheers
Leah
Aussie Sapphire - The Lapidary Warehouse

Gemster

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Re: Incoming GST changes to destroy collectors
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2017, 05:28:26 PM »
More than Likely I would have bought Something. If Something interested me Leah, I know the secret to Business is to make money.... and I have a fair idea what is a Good/Fair price and what is a Rip.... Only been bitten once on Ebay.. and I got my money back... :)
 The 15 Stones for $5 was Fluorite... Aussie Seller for the Exactly same Product was $15 plus postage... Each.. :o
  I make Gem and Mineral Inlay Tables... If I purchased my 'Stones' from Aussie Sellers I would have to Sell them for well over $1000 each... or Under $600 with Overseas Stones... What makes better Business sense?....

  Gemster.... beers
 
I swing a 12-pound hammer,smash gibbers by the ton
I used to think it convict work,but now i think it's FUN

FlashGP

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Re: Incoming GST changes to destroy collectors
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2017, 07:20:19 AM »
It makes sense to collect GST from the person handling the money.  It us the same as a garnishee order.  The States have done this with unpaid land tax for decades.

All ebay has to do is withhold 10% of the proceeds and pay them to the government. Simples. 

Regards
Yours Sincerely
Flash (Gordon)

FlashGP

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Re: Incoming GST changes to destroy collectors
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2017, 07:30:01 AM »
I was just talking to a fellow bus passenger.  Some American States already do somethong like what the Oz Govt is proposing.  If you buy from Californian sellers an additional sales tax is added to the transaction.
Yours Sincerely
Flash (Gordon)

Aussie Sapphire

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Re: Incoming GST changes to destroy collectors
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2017, 07:52:59 AM »
It makes sense to collect GST from the person handling the money.  It us the same as a garnishee order.  The States have done this with unpaid land tax for decades.

All ebay has to do is withhold 10% of the proceeds and pay them to the government. Simples. 

Regards

I suppose my real problem with this solution is that they can target Ebay and Amazon for the GST but all the other small transactions will still slip through.  Eg. lots of trading happens on Facebook now via sales groups - this will push more of this type of transaction over to that venue which does not offer any buyer protection at all and is a lot more unwieldy from the sellers point of view.

It would seem to me to make more sense to do it through the Post/Customs system if they want to catch everything that comes through.  Obviously the system they have now is not working well so it would need a massive improvement to be able to handle that but if they were serious about this issue, that is the tack they should take.  By just going after Ebay/Amazon, it seems like it is just a cheap shot to get the easy half and forget about the difficult ones.

Cheers
Leah

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