collapse

Author Topic: NPWS has been reviewing its Fossicking Policy Please comment to them by 6 May  (Read 20554 times)

Gemster

  • ALF'er VIP
  • *
  • Posts: 734
    • View Profile
They will always pick on the easy targets, and leave the big boys alone....

 Sorry Leah, im not Scientific Environmentally word Friendly....   and who would want to argue with them..... After all, I chose to Earn, not Learn...
  Maybe not a new word for you, but to Us Fossickers it is.... :)

 Anyhow, this New Policy is a step forward in the right direction with More good news to come. ;)

  LW....
I swing a 12-pound hammer,smash gibbers by the ton
I used to think it convict work,but now i think it's FUN

Aussie Sapphire

  • Administrator
  • ALF'er VIP
  • *****
  • Posts: 3309
    • View Profile
    • Aussie Sapphire
    • Email
Meant it was a new word in NPNSW war on everything not green not in the scientific use of the word  :)

But this is where I kind of disagree with you.  This issue has been initially presented in this thread as some new thing brought out by NPWS to confuse us ???  I really dont think that is where it comes from - I think it is simply is the language they speak because their job is to manage the environment and that work is measured in those kinds of ways.  Not saying it cant be used in a negative way because it definitely can be and that is hopefully what the NAPFA can guard and work against - all credit to them for getting involved.

A word like turbidity is certainly a word with a specific meaning in science but it has been used by people who manage land and water for a really long time - and I am not just talking about scientists but farmers, miners, anyone involved in landcare/rivercare, school kids involved in river monitoring, etc.  It is just not a new concept to me or many people around me.  I can appreciate that you may not have come across it before but anyone who has been involved in land management most likely would have.

What worries me is the impression that I get that some people want to negotiate with NPWS in a way that they are not going to respond well to - some clearly think they are "waging a war on everything not green" but if you are negotiating with them by presenting yourselves as "good ole boys who were too busy putting a crust on the table to get any book learnin" and almost refusing to look at this in a science evidence-based way, then the results of that negotiation might not be as good as you hope. 

Seems to me that that evidence should trump opinion on this - if we have clear evidence (and I believe we do) that fossicking does not damage the environment in appropriate areas where it has been done for a long time plus cost benefit analysis supporting the activity in other ways (eg. economic, tourism, etc), then that is always going to be more convincing than an argument based on emotion and opinion.  And evidence arises from science.  A negative or skeptical attitude toward science is not helpful I would suggest and is actually a worrying thing about today's society in general.

Just some disclosure here - I have a background in agricultural science (at tech support level - I do not have a PhD).  I have been in many similar situations here with communicating results to farmers.  I can honestly say that the farmers who were interested and supportive of science got the best value from relevant research because they came to it with an open mind and a positive attitude.  The blokes who had an attitude that anyone who had been to university was a shiny-arse desk jockey who knew nothing about the real world (kind of similar to the vibe I am getting here), they were the ones who never made a change, didnt benefit at all from anything that had been developed and struggled financially compared to the more positive guys.  The most constructive people to work with were intelligent skeptics - they would not accept anything on face value but were smart enough to look at the evidence and sensibly apply it to their own situation. 

I suppose the reason I have reacted to this discussion in the way I have is because of that history and the opportunities some farmers missed because they believed nothing we said was of value - ie. scientists could not possibly say anything relevant to their "real world" situation.  It was disappointing then and even more so now when I see it happening in wider society.  A different perspective is always useful.

I think NAPFA are doing a fantastic job and encourage them to go to the negotiating table as "intelligent skeptics" who can stand their ground because it is firm and based on sound evidence. 

Cheers
leah

Aussie Sapphire - The Lapidary Warehouse

Lord_Thunda

  • Global Moderator
  • ALF'er VIP
  • *****
  • Posts: 914
    • View Profile
    • Email
Science is a tricky subject. Just take for example "global warming"  ::)  They used data that was input by man to come up with the results they wanted & NOT the TRUTH! It has cost trillions of $$ to make some wealthy without the conscience of the actual facts. Former Vice President Al Gore famously predicted in 2008 the Arctic would be ice free in 5 years.  In September 2016, sea ice added 3.7 million square miles of sea ice. Gore is worth over $300m.


Coal seam gas is another issue that is causing more problems than fossicking ever could. The companies dont tell the scientific truth about the effects it has on the environment.


I agree NAPFA is doing a great job & needs all of our support.

Gemster

  • ALF'er VIP
  • *
  • Posts: 734
    • View Profile
That's why I joined NAPFA.... Let them negotiate on my Behalf. :).. All I was worried about was Torrington... Im not interested in any other National Park to Fossick in... But 'Others' are.. :)
 
  Gemster..... beers
I swing a 12-pound hammer,smash gibbers by the ton
I used to think it convict work,but now i think it's FUN

Aussie Sapphire

  • Administrator
  • ALF'er VIP
  • *****
  • Posts: 3309
    • View Profile
    • Aussie Sapphire
    • Email
Science is a tricky subject. Just take for example "global warming"  ::)  They used data that was input by man to come up with the results they wanted & NOT the TRUTH! It has cost trillions of $$ to make some wealthy without the conscience of the actual facts. Former Vice President Al Gore famously predicted in 2008 the Arctic would be ice free in 5 years.  In September 2016, sea ice added 3.7 million square miles of sea ice. Gore is worth over $300m.


Coal seam gas is another issue that is causing more problems than fossicking ever could. The companies dont tell the scientific truth about the effects it has on the environment.


I agree NAPFA is doing a great job & needs all of our support.

Science is not a tricky subject - it is a process that should be understood and engaged with by every one. 

Your arguments just illustrate the problem.  Al Gore is not a scientist - he is a politician with an agenda.  Where people disengage with science and buy into the conspiracy theory that they are all out to "get us", then politicians can do what they like with the results because the rest of us dont care to educate ourselves.

Scientists are not making up climate change data - they are working to try and better understand a very complex and constantly changing web of interactions.  And where coal seam gas is concerned, there are many who are very worried and actually speaking up about the dangers of coal seam gas on aquifers, etc.  It is the politicians who are ignoring science for their own reasons.  And where we dont get involved and try to understand the bigger picture, then it is all too easy to fool us and lead us down a path we should not go.

To be frank, it really worries me that more and more people are so paranoid about science when it underpins our way of life and our future survival on this planet.  Most of would not have sufficient food to eat, clean water to drink, medicine to keep us healthy and an amazing library of information at our fingertips without the work of scientists over the years and I am hoping they keep doing their work because there are lots more problems we need them to solve.

Some interesting discussion and further reading in this article:  https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/War_on_Science

But lets not argue about climate change - it tends to be a waste of time and just ends up making people cross.

cheers
leah
Aussie Sapphire - The Lapidary Warehouse

Gemster

  • ALF'er VIP
  • *
  • Posts: 734
    • View Profile
Hope you didn't get your info from Facebook Lord T. ::)... Better let the polar bears know  where this 3.7 million sq miles of 'New' sea ice is.... :)
http://nsidc.org/greenland-today/
http://time.com/4745827/antarctica-water-climate-change/

   Gemster.... beers
« Last Edit: January 01, 2018, 11:51:31 PM by Gemster »
I swing a 12-pound hammer,smash gibbers by the ton
I used to think it convict work,but now i think it's FUN

Orange Pirate

  • ALF'er Gold Member
  • *
  • Posts: 210
    • View Profile
Just visit the Fox Glacier NZ or look at historic Google earth images to see the real story regarding ice, glaciers.

Aussie Sapphire

  • Administrator
  • ALF'er VIP
  • *****
  • Posts: 3309
    • View Profile
    • Aussie Sapphire
    • Email
Southern sea ice has increased in recent years and has also shown much higher variability over the long term average (although good records dont cover a very long periode which is problematic when studying this issue).  The system is complex and this article talks about some reasons why a warming ocean in the south appears to be causing an increase in ice which would seem counter-intuitive.


https://www.skepticalscience.com/increasing-Antarctic-Southern-sea-ice-intermediate.htm


In contrast, northern sea ice has been decreasing significantly.


https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2017/end-of-summer-arctic-sea-ice-extent-is-eighth-lowest-on-record


Although this year, the northern winter looks to be very extreme so that might turn things in the other direction for a while.


As always, the real situation is far more complex than a sound bite on tv or a meme on facebook.


cheers
Leah\





Aussie Sapphire - The Lapidary Warehouse

Lord_Thunda

  • Global Moderator
  • ALF'er VIP
  • *****
  • Posts: 914
    • View Profile
    • Email
Google is my friend Gemster  :P
I seem to recall a number of so-called scientists being stranded a number of times when they went to check on the "loss" of sea ice & had to be rescued by 2 ice breakers  :D 
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2002/07/scientists-rescued-stranded-ship

And again ... http://www.climatedepot.com/2016/07/20/global-warming-expedition-stopped-in-its-tracks-by-arctic-sea-ice/

Global warming used to be called Summer & Winter aka SEASONS! ::) ::)


Niagra falls may freeze again as happened in 1911 & 2014 with temps at -14C. https://www.boredpanda.com/frozen-niagara-falls/?page_numb=1&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=ggn


Edited by admin to fix a text size glitch making half this message too small to read.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 10:33:35 AM by Aussie Sapphire »

lindio

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Weather is different to climate. Climate change is not disputed within the scientific community. Denying that it exists is like denying that radioactivity exists because you can't see it. Whether the actions of people are causing the rate of change is disputed, but by less than 4% if scientists. Typically they believe that we are simply coming out of an ice age and that sea level rises, severe weather, bushfires etc will occur, but it is normal. They do not dispute that climate change occurs, nor do they dispute that we will need to develop adaptation measures.

The difference between climate and weather is that each single point on a graph of the climate is worth 30 years of weather. So when you look at the cold winter they might be having in a few locations over the last few weeks/months and say that this disproves climate change, you don't even have a single dot on a graph of the climate of the world. You are looking at apples and saying that oranges don't exist.

pc bowe

  • ALF'er Gold Member
  • *
  • Posts: 164
    • View Profile
    • Email
At least it's refreshing to see any sort of dialog on management of National parks.
The Qld Gov's management structure is currently based on a simple two letter principle.
 "NO".
However when we finally eventually employ a similar mechanism.I'm going to be ready to submit a proposal or two.

Aussie Sapphire

  • Administrator
  • ALF'er VIP
  • *****
  • Posts: 3309
    • View Profile
    • Aussie Sapphire
    • Email
At least it's refreshing to see any sort of dialog on management of National parks.

Agreed and hopefully this will continue - consultation not just on fossicking but a whole bunch of other important issues where perhaps it might be done better (eg. weeds, feral animal control, fire management, etc). 

cheers
Leah
Aussie Sapphire - The Lapidary Warehouse

Gemster

  • ALF'er VIP
  • *
  • Posts: 734
    • View Profile
Yes I agree with you pc bowe... Qld is way behind the rest... Hopefully Something will Change soon after they see what NSW has done.... One can only Hope...

  Gemster.... beers
I swing a 12-pound hammer,smash gibbers by the ton
I used to think it convict work,but now i think it's FUN

Tags:
 

* Sponsor

HTML Online Editor Sample

ALF is hosted by Aussie Sapphire as a free service to the Lapidary community.

Visit our website here
Phone 1800 50 21 40
Or find us on Facebook

Recent Activities

Emerald Cuts, any tips? by Faceting Frank
[Today at 07:08:00 PM]


Vibralap information or experience or advice wanted by pito
[Today at 05:07:48 PM]


Facet design wanted by MakkyBrown
[Today at 03:01:54 PM]


Andrew Brown Prize -Australian Facetors Guild 2020 Annual Comp by FlashGP
[May 26, 2020, 08:36:00 PM]


Gemmasta 4 faceting machine water issue by hithwentinuviel
[May 26, 2020, 01:56:39 PM]


Concave Cutter by FlashGP
[May 25, 2020, 07:08:57 AM]


Home made faceting machine, transfer jig and dop sticks by Ghost
[May 24, 2020, 08:11:39 AM]


New laps review by Giel
[May 23, 2020, 06:08:57 AM]


Resurfacing polishing laps by MakkyBrown
[May 17, 2020, 09:23:12 PM]


Number of wheels in a car by pc bowe
[May 16, 2020, 08:22:45 AM]


Hello from the central coast, NSW , austraila by The Aussie Boy
[May 15, 2020, 08:52:48 AM]


Fossicking near Newcastle by The Aussie Boy
[May 14, 2020, 01:30:39 PM]

* Calendar

May 2020
Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 [27] 28 29 30
31

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 43
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 1
  • Dot Users Online:

* Find us on Facebook

* Forum Stats

  • stats Total Members: 4273
  • stats Total Posts: 55861
  • stats Total Topics: 5954
  • stats Total Categories: 6
  • stats Total Boards: 27
  • stats Most Online: 773