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Author Topic: "breaking in" new 1200/3000 grit topper laps  (Read 433 times)

Philip

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"breaking in" new 1200/3000 grit topper laps
« on: July 19, 2020, 12:31:19 AM »
Hi Guys

I have a number of old laps that I have been getting mixed results with so when i saw that there was a darkside available on AussieSapphire that i have been wanting for a while I thought, why not get a few new laps while I'm getting stuff shipped anyway and see how we go.  I picked up a 360/600/1200 and 3000 topper with master laps for each one (I wanted 2 Batt Laps instead of the 1200/3000 so i could use 3000/50000 diamond with them but no-one has them at the minute and from the note on his website it looks like he is having trouble getting laps to people with all of the planes not flying at the minute meaning they are ending up on ships).

Well i finally managed to get some time to try them out today and using a large piece of smokey quartz that i had cut a section off, I decided to see how the new laps fared.  The new 360 was really good, fast cutting and no issues, the 600 was again a good lap and produced a reliable surface so at this point I was smiling again.  Then came the 1200.... All i can say is that the scratches from it were almost as deep as those produced by the 360.  I don't remember me having ever used a new 1200 at any point, I've always had "warn in" ones so i don't know what to do with this one to get it to be usable.  I went back to the 600, removed the scratches and then tried again but it was the same outcome on the second and third tries.  After that i removed the scratches again on the 600 and then tried out the 3000.  While it wasn't as bad as the 1200, it still left significant scratching in the surface that had to be taken out by the 600 again.  I won't be the first to have had this happen with new laps so i thought i would ask you guys what you do to get these grits to a usable position. 

Just to note, i made sure they were the right laps i.e. the 1200 feels much smoother than the 600, etc. and i still had them with the covers they came in.  I was also careful between laps to wash the stone and my hands to minimise the possibility of contamination with the new laps so it isn't likely to be that.

Thanks
Philip

tinker

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Re: "breaking in" new 1200/3000 grit topper laps
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2020, 09:35:32 AM »
Phil, I have the same problem with diamond wheels, nice and smooth stone without scratch's at 600, I then go to the 1200 and scratch's appear.  I was getting a good polish when I used Silicon Carbide Wheels, have used them for years up to about five years ago but am thinking of going back to them, diamond wheels aren't as good as I was told.  I guess this doesn't help with your laps but I have a similar problem.

Bucket

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Re: "breaking in" new 1200/3000 grit topper laps
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2020, 11:56:29 AM »
I use topper as well, I have a very well worn 1200 which I use to prepolish, works a treat! I have another which I use regularly, but found the same, it tended to leave scratches. I got a nice piece of flat hard agate which I ran over the lap a number of times to break it in, it no longer leaves the marks it did. I would suggest doing the same just to see if things improve, it might be worth a try.
Common sense isn't exactly common

Faceting Frank

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Re: "breaking in" new 1200/3000 grit topper laps
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2020, 12:20:35 PM »
I had the same problem with a 1600 I bought years ago, I think its caused by some of the diamond grit getting into clumps when bonded. You could try dopping a corundum stone and press it over the areas that seem to be the problem. May take a while to work though.

Philip

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Re: "breaking in" new 1200/3000 grit topper laps
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2020, 02:32:25 PM »
Thanks guys

Tinnker - I'm surprised that you are having issues with the diamond wheels as its not something that I have come across myself with any of my wheels but I do break mine in with a large quartz piece or a piece of agate by running the wheel and then just evenly moving the stone across the wheel for a few minutes.  I make sure that the stone has been run through the previous wheels first though so that I don't have any issues with the stone breaking up or leaving pieces of itself embedded in the wheel.

Bucket - Hope you are keeping well! I was really surprised by the scratches off the 1200 and the 3000, they are really deep and took quite a long time to get rid of with the 600 again.  I don't have any pieces of Agate at the minute so i was using the quartz.  I cut a few pieces out of it before but this section is full of air bubbles so i thought why not use it to test and break in the new laps.  How long so you think you had to run the agate for before yours cleared up?  I ran mine for about 30 mins on and off last night and it didn't seem to change a bit.

Frank - I'm hoping that this isn't the case but you never know.  While i do have some sapphire bombs lying around that i could use i don't think it would help.  When running the lap and testing directions on the stone, etc. it appears to be pretty consistent across the whole lap rather than in a couple of spots.

I will see if i can dig around in my old buckets outside and see if i have any agate hiding in them that i can use otherwise i will try to give the quartz another go and see if it just needs a bit more time.  I'll also give Andrew/Leah a ring on Monday and see if they have had any issues with these in the past in case it is a batch issue.

Thanks
Philip

Bucket

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Re: "breaking in" new 1200/3000 grit topper laps
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2020, 09:19:52 AM »
I've got to admit, I didn't have to do it for 30 minutes, more likely 5-10. Like Frank pointed out, could be a dodgie lap, it shouldn't be leaving scratches that deep now.
Common sense isn't exactly common

tinker

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Re: "breaking in" new 1200/3000 grit topper laps
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2020, 04:17:49 PM »
Thanks Phil I will try the rough quartz and see how I go. beers

Philip

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Re: "breaking in" new 1200/3000 grit topper laps
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2020, 08:24:03 PM »
Yeah, it surprised me too Bucket, hence me throwing the question up here to see if I was doing something wrong.  I've been flat out all day and didn't manage to call and ask Andrew or Leah about them but if i get 5 mins tomorrow i will.

Tinker - good luck, hopefully that works out for you.  If i tend to have issues with scratching from new wheels I find they are normally on something like a 600 hard rather than the soft Nova type wheels.  I don't know what it is about the 600 hard wheels but they always seem to need to be broken in more i think.

Philip

roughcreations

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Re: "breaking in" new 1200/3000 grit topper laps
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2020, 02:03:35 PM »
Often I have used well-worn 1200 diamond topper disks as a sort of pre-polish for quartz, I have been able to go straight to cerium oxide on a Darkside lap. What eventually seems to happen, sometimes sooner than other times, is that the worn 1200 will suddenly begin to leave deep scratches for no apparent reason, and then I have no choice but to relegate the 1200 as my chisel-sharpening disk!
I now use a 1200 Lightning Lap diamond impregnated epoxy topper disc as my 'pre-polish' for quartz, I get a better finish than a worn 1200 diamond plated steel disc, and it should last a very long time given that I only need a light touch on each facet.
I also have some rubber diamond impregnated disks coming from the Netherlands (Giel's friend makes them), so looking forward to even more options in future.
RC
Rough Creations - Beauty from rough beginnings

Giel

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Re: "breaking in" new 1200/3000 grit topper laps
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2020, 04:01:28 AM »
Quote
I also have some rubber diamond impregnated disks coming from the Netherlands

I hope you dont have to wait to long for it to arrive, I have been waiting for a parcel to arrive for almost 4 months.
Corona really screws up the mail!
I really like his laps, I have been using his new lap on a few stones now, and it cuts very smooth and fast.
I have to take care not to overcut on small facets.
It's an 800 grit lap, I cut a 8 mm stone on it, only used that lap to cut the stone and went straight to polishing.
Have to say it was new so lets hope it keeps cutting the same way.

roughcreations

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Re: "breaking in" new 1200/3000 grit topper laps
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2020, 09:13:49 AM »
Yes, I am prepared for the laps to take a long time to get to Australia, then they still have to get across Bass Strait to Tasmania which can be unpredictable. Bert got international tracking on it, and it looks like the parcel may possibly already be in Australia, or close to it. He was quoted 6-12 days which seems very optimistic, it is 6 days today.
I ended up ordering one 20/30 micron (600) grit and a 63/80 micron (200) grit. If they suit my purposes and work well with my smoky quartz and occasional topaz, I might order some of Bert's other discs in future - 170/200 micron (approx. 80 grit) and a 7/10 micron (approx. 1000 grit).

Often with small facets I just wipe the stone across a stationary lap, which gives more control and fewer surprises.
RC
Rough Creations - Beauty from rough beginnings

Giel

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Re: "breaking in" new 1200/3000 grit topper laps
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2020, 03:19:33 AM »
I think that you will find the 200 lap plenty course!
I use the 80 grit now, only for roughing huge stones since I dont have any plated steel laps. But I dont use it much.
20-30 micron is a 600 lap, but the ones he made now are 20-28 micron to it is an 800 grit lap.
I told him he should make a 1200 grit lap also, but he said it will take him at least half a year to clean up all his equipment and get rid of all the diamond.
If you want another one then get the 300 grit (30-40 micron) or the 1200 of course if he will ever make them.
The 3 should be enough I think, 200-300-800.
The 7-10 is a 2000 or 2500 grit lap, he told me the diamonds break out to fast, I barely use it, but I tried a garnet on it.
Did not really do much cutting normally but when I pressed really hard the facets came out polished.

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