Choosing the best Faceting Machine.

[Canfred]

Hi to all gem lovers, a short introduction I have been interested in gems for a number of years collecting unusual stones and petrified wood from around Wandoan Q.
some month ago a reasonable collection of gems and minerals come to me from a older gent in our family. All of these are rough , I would like to do more than just collecting and have build some machinery already a cutting bench and sanding. Now I like to add a faceting machine unfortunately
nothing on that auction net seemed to suitable just this morning I placed a bid on a Hall 2000 plus laps and a few more parts the machine was sold for $ 3350.00 exceeding my bid by $ 100.00 or so.
I much rather purchase new with reliable back up.
I am asking is the Gemmasta GF4 the best choice or would the Facetron be fine , there is also the Patriot looking very good and well equipped. both the USA machines are cheaper but to me with engineering background the Gemmasta looks the better design?
regards , Manfred
Could I have some feedback on this please.

[Aussie Sapphire]

but to me with engineering background the Gemmasta looks the better design?

As a dealer in both, we feel either machine is a good choice but interested in what particular aspects of design on the Gemmasta you feel are superior.

Have you considered Polymetric as another option ??

Some personal experiences from our members would be good on this question - it is commonly asked by those considering a new machine and all opinions are helpful.

BTW - I feel anything over $3000 for a second hand machine is very expensive.  Usually justified by lots of extras thrown in but recommend buyers should really check whether the extras are worth the extra cost.  The Hall 2000 is a good and popular machine but that price seems very high compared to costs of new machines with warranty.

cheers
Leah

[drft_er]

Good Day all,
I agree with Leah on the second hand price considering a new Halls is only $3300. A mate of mine visited the factory a couple of weeks ago so that is a recent price with a dop set and T/fer jig. That and another $500 spent in the Aussie Shop would have you set up with a new rig for not much more.  ( Hmmmm Which reminds me I need to put in another order to get another entry in that xmas draw. ) I think that any of the new machines will be good as it is your 1st machine you will adjust to what to buy with no prior bias gained by using another brand. It all comes down to how much money you want to spend. Any of the better brands Like Halls, Gemmasta, Facetron or Vj will do the job nicely.
Cheers

[Andrew]

Sorry,

For those that have asked why we mentioned Polymetric Faceting machines, we have recently secured another Aussie Sapphire Exclusive Agency in Australia and have their full range being built for us right now. First stock in only a few weeks.

The Polymetric Faceting Machine is a new product for Australia but the stable it comes from is extremely well respected in the USA and gives our customers several new options like:

1. A Concave Faceter (Polymetric OMF) - affordable and you can use along with our existing standard machines.  Polymetric (Doug Hoffman) actually invented, patented and pioneered this exciting new approach to faceting.
2. Polymetric Xristal-Tek 87 - the most affordable yet still precise Faceting Machine ever in Australia. Priced under $3k but with the extras associated with $4K machines!
3. Polymetric Scintillator 88 - a top of the range Full Digital Machine with crank mast for the lover of great gear.
4. Polymetric Xristal-Tek 99 - a mid range priced machine with full digital readout.

+ full back up from us.
Believe me, we dont add new Faceting machines from the USA to our stable anymore without full confidence and expert inside information from some of the most experienced faceting machine experts over there.  The advantage of this is that it adds some exciting new options to our existing range - Facetron and Gemmasta are both definitely here to stay but we're excited about these new machines as well.

We had Graves and Omni (now called Patriot) Dealerships several years ago and we gave them both up for real reasons. We will not deal in products we dont think meet the grade for whatever reason.

Cheers Andrew
 

 

[REXL]

Hi Canfred, welcome. In our lapidary club we have people using Graves, Gemmasta and facetron and they all seem to feel that theirs is the best, so I think it's more a matter of what you get used to. I have seen a lot of cut stones and the quality of the cut and polish obviously depends on the cutter and not the machine so I would buy the best you can afford and get used to it. Do'nt forget when looking at the price you also need laps, polish dop sticks etc which push the total up a bit.
REX

[Canfred]

Thank's to all of you your advise is most helpful. All I wanted to hear if there is any reason at all not to choose any of these machines. At this stage I have little useful knowledge and no experience , apart from studying " Cutting Gemstones  John Broadfoot & Peter Collins " joining the NDLC our local Club should help as well. Leah the reason I think the Gemmasta is a good design its base is all alloy and its mast was improved and the machine does look so well made from an engineering point of view as well as its local.
Rex thank you for your input if you see both models are doing the job reliably that is of importance to me.
I have seen photos of the Polymetric Andrew I feel more choice will be good for the whole community.
I have since had advise a new Patriot is on the way here this new version has the name Tom Thumb and will sell for an amazing $ 2500.00 I will say I would be a little reluctant seems incredible cheap.
The Facetron has a huge loyal customer base in the USA. I Have no way finding out how to choose such a machine even the club the Nunawading District Lapidary Club does not have the latest equipment.
Manfred

[Aussie Sapphire]

I Have no way finding out how to choose such a machine even the club the Nunawading District Lapidary Club does not have the latest equipment.

The best way is to really see the different machines for yourself.  But difficult if you dont have access - unfortunately, we are quite a distance away from Nunawading.

Hadnt heard about the new version of the Patriot - is the $2500 the US price or landed here in Australia?  When importing direct, need to allow for freight, currency conversion, foreign transaction fees if using your credit card and customs clearance (customs brokerage and GST must be paid if import is over value of $1000).  If landed price, then very cheap and worth a look.  We were unhappy with our 2 Omni's a few years ago but perhaps they have resolved some (or hopefully all) of those problems.

By the name, I guess it is a smaller more compact version of the Patriot design??  Perhaps 6" laps only ??  Will be interesting to see this - the Jersey Instruments website is still referring to the OMNI with no mention of Patriot - let alone upcoming models.

cheers
Leah

[Canfred]

Hi Leah, this new version Patriot / Tom Thumb is about to land I have seen a flyer the price will be $ 2500.00 Au. I assume its made in China for Jersey Instruments, it looks very close to the Omni or Patriot.
Cheers
Manfred

[Aussie Sapphire]

Hi Leah, this new version Patriot / Tom Thumb is about to land I have seen a flyer the price will be $ 2500.00 Au. I assume its made in China for Jersey Instruments, it looks very close to the Omni or Patriot.
Cheers
Manfred

That will be a good price then.  Would be interested to see the flyer if you have a copy.  Wonder if it is just outsourcing making of the existing design or if it has been changed from the Patriot model. 

cheers
Leah

[mehoose]

Hmm, read as much out there as possible, such as this
www.omnifaceter.com/
And there are a few other sites, sift through everything and try and nut it out. It's hard. You'll have to decide what's dinkum and what's hot air.
I agree, try a couple if possible. Look, in Vic where you are there's a few clubs that you can contact and ask if someone has a particular machine you could see in use..if you really behave they might let you try privately. 
Old stomping ground for me...memories.
If you are a member of a club, there's no reason why you can't go to another club as a visitor, just take your membership card with you. Ring around, let them know you specifically want to see a few different machines. You've got Cheong park, Waverly gem club- this is a break away group from Nunawading-check out their website, quite a few facet machines at the club, ummm Maroondah, Dandenong, Diamond Valley and then the rest are getting pretty much further afield, Frankston, Mordialloc and beyond.
Personally, I'm looking at what has backup in Australia, shipping parts direct O'S would be a financial nightmare if you ran into trouble.

Let us know how you go.

[Andrew]

Good advice as always mehoose,

Obviously it is not easy for me to stay unbiased but here as some thoughts for what they are worth.

We stock and sell what has proven over time to be reliable accurate and easy to maintain . I look at any of these types of machines as "long term - hand onto the Kids" investments.  As such spare parts and ease of service are important along with continued accuracy.

Facetron: A family company that has been making these machines in the US for over 35 years - they have a great following there.  We are their exclusive Australian Agents and so carry a heap of spares.  A direct line with the person who makes the machines and the authority from them to fix any issue fast. The Facetron crew are so great to work with they even have a complete new machine sitting in our shop for us to ship out quickly to anyone in the Asian region that may have a unforeseen warranty problem that cant be fixed quickly.  We can rely on their factory support - great service.
We are still able to keep 25 year old Facetrons (the oldest ones around here) going like new.
We carry 2 to 4 Facetrons on the shelf at any one time - if I need another machine or any part I dont have, we can get new stock in normally under 10 days.

Gemmasta: An Australian machine with a good following - very solid build quality.  It's probably in need of some improvements to keep up to speed with the repeatability and some of the standard features of some of the USA machines but it's an honest workhorse.  We have been dealers for Gemmasta for many years and carry spares in stock.

Omni/Patriot/other? We had a bad experience with the Omni - time will tell if the eye to detail has improved on this new model.

Polymetric: New to our range so will be able to tell you more in a few weeks.  When a Guy calls you up and says "Andrew why dont you speak with the Polymetric team as they have something your customers need", usually this goes into the normal research pile.   However, this guy has invented Great polishing Laps and was involved in pioneering Digital Faceting so I listened a bit harder than I would normally. 
Another family business - 2nd generation making Faceting machines for over 60 years! These are precision + machines built with a real passion for excellence.

VJ: Great heavy duty Faceter.  Very popular among those who are prepared to pay for quality.  Can be a little slow in manufacture.

Hall: Good following - I loved the simple old machines and they are still really popular on the second hand market.  Have not seen the new Xtra model - hear it has better build quality compared to the USA version but I have not seen an Xtra myself.

Graves:  At the very budget end of the market, these machines were not great but reasonable for a beginner.  Unfortunately, we had to drop these ones because of lack of factory support.  We now believe we can deliver a far superior quality machine at this entry-level point in the market via Polymetric.

Faceting machines are important to our Business so we take it seriously.  Nowhere else will you find the choice we keep in stock with full local backup and spares. I just counted 9 faceting machines - four in stock, three just left the USA today and two more coming in two weeks. Now thats an investment in Faceting

In the end it's a choice with no real completely wrong answers  - do you like Holden, Ford or Toyota ? All have issues from time to time, all have lovers and haters, each manufacturer has Dealers that go out of there way to fix a problem and some that dont.  You just need to pick a machine that suits your budget and needs from a dealer you are comfortable with.  You wont go too far wrong that way.

Kick tyres, read as much as you can, ask questions and decide yourself,a good cutter can achieve great results on a very basic machine,a good machine just makes life easier.

Cheers Andrew 

[kevo1960]

i was surprised as well to know how much they are was looking for well over two years for a machine and was lucky to find one a hall mk5 and still paid 1850.00 and seeing them around for more makes me think i got a good deal the money was well spent
cheers
kevo