How many members are using the Chinese Faceting machines?

[JBK]

Greetings,


Just wanted to know the members experience (positive or not) in modifying the Chinese faceting machines you get from Amazon, eBay etc. for personal use. Yes, watched a couple of YouTube videos including the review from Patrick Donohue.


I admit that I've bought one and currently fixing bits and pieces to get accurate alignments and consistent angles. Was it a mistake? don't know till I actually try and cut something simple. (soon hopefully)


What made me to choose this path? Limited number of second hand ones (if they do surface they are virtually gone the same day) and the cost of new ones to get started in this hobby is unjustifiable for me.


   Joe

[Faceting Frank]

I will be following this thread with interest, as I have just finished writing a Facet Talk proposal on what causes facet misalignment on step cuts. This is about what causes the problem of having to make cheater adjustments from one layer of facets to the next, to align the row being cut to the one below. This is not a how to fix the problem, but why it is happening. I make my own faceting machines and have used other machines, but never owned one, so have not had a copy of their operating instructions to look at.
What online instructions I’ve seen doesn’t mention anything about fixing things, nor does looking at the pictures of their machines indicate to me there is a built-in adjustment in the machine area needed to fix this problem. But I can see looking at the pictures of those Chinese machines, that if this problem occurs how it can be fixed.

[RoughCreations]

Bert Smit makes a decent machine:
https://aussielapidaryforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=6857.0
https://aussielapidaryforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=6669

He's in the Netherlands though, however myself and various other forum members in Australia get equipment from him. Don't know what his machines cost at the moment, and whether he has done a recent batch of them, but he was selling them for 1600-1800 Euro a few years back. Price range is in the ball park of a very good local secondhand machine. When you look carefully at his design, it has some similarities with the Chinese machines, although Bert's equipment is at an order of magnitude better quality and performance.
Maybe he will sell you a handpiece/quill on its own, might be a better platform to adapt.

RC

[JBK]

Hi Frank, thanks - the cheater will most likely be one of the last items to address. Hopefully stable once set for a desired index wheel. I’m thinking of starting a register (inc pictures) of items that required remediation and approximate cost (variable component) including the cost of the machine + shipping and any additional accessories like cutting/polishing laps, transfer Jig, 45/90 degree angle dop, verity of dop sticks (6mm) and adding the 1.5mm key, step down transformer 115v, etc.

[JBK]

Bert Smit makes a decent machine:
https://aussielapidaryforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=6857.0
https://aussielapidaryforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=6669

He's in the Netherlands though, however myself and various other forum members in Australia get equipment from him. Don't know what his machines cost at the moment, and whether he has done a recent batch of them, but he was selling them for 1600-1800 Euro a few years back. Price range is in the ball park of a very good local secondhand machine. When you look carefully at his design, it has some similarities with the Chinese machines, although Bert's equipment is at an order of magnitude better quality and performance.
Maybe he will sell you a handpiece/quill on its own, might be a better platform to adapt.

RC

Thanks RC
 yes, have thought about getting a mast and quill to suit. Most manufacturers won’t sell it on its own but I will reach out to find the approximate cost. The one I have has a digital readout with hard stop and fine adjustment.

[Faceting Frank]

Just looked at that link you have posted RoughCreations, about Bert Smit’s machine. He has a slot in the quill support for the quill pivot shaft to sit in. Same as the Chinese machines, but with a bearing on the shaft. My guess is that this is the point he will align the quill with the mast. You can tell if the mast is not square to the lap by the side to side swing. But this does not tell you if the quill is going to follow a perfectly vertical travel as the angle is increased. If it doesn’t then each facet of the same index is not perfectly above the one below. Hence that row of facets will need to be cheated to align them with those below.

[JBK]

You are correct, the mast and base not straight even for the naked eye.

[RoughCreations]

Just looked at that link you have posted RoughCreations, about Bert Smit’s machine. He has a slot in the quill support for the quill pivot shaft to sit in. Same as the Chinese machines, but with a bearing on the shaft. My guess is that this is the point he will align the quill with the mast. You can tell if the mast is not square to the lap by the side to side swing. But this does not tell you if the quill is going to follow a perfectly vertical travel as the angle is increased. If it doesn’t then each facet of the same index is not perfectly above the one below. Hence that row of facets will need to be cheated to align them with those below.

Yes, well spotted, I wonder if each machine manufactured by Bert is tested at this point and aligned, extra machining of the slot on a certain side would do it?
RC

[RoughCreations]

You are correct, the mast and base not straight even for the naked eye.

Yes, that's disappointing. Be careful that your protractor is actually 90 degrees - never assume anything in this game...
I'd be confirming it somehow.

[JBK]

I had the base machined including the master lap that originally came with the machine. Further addition was the arbor adapter/extender machined (removable) all up about 185 locally (parts and labor)

[RoughCreations]

Hi Frank, thanks - the cheater will most likely be one of the last items to address. Hopefully stable once set for a desired index wheel. I’m thinking of starting a register (inc pictures) of items that required remediation and approximate cost (variable component) including the cost of the machine + shipping and any additional accessories like cutting/polishing laps, transfer Jig, 45/90 degree angle dop, verity of dop sticks (6mm) and adding the 1.5mm key, step down transformer 115v, etc.

Great idea, please do and share with the Forum. Can make it into a 'sticky' topic.
I have been wondering whether there is some merit in utilising the skills possessed by various members on the forum to make and/or source different components for an ALF 'open-source' faceting machine. Sort of a step-by-step guide and information repository for assembling a faceting machine composed of, say, a base machined by member A or Company A, a mast turned by member B (or made from this piece of equipment from Ali Express), a quill from a Chinese machine modified this way, an optical encoder box from member C, and so on. Is this realistic or am I dreaming?
Could promote good discussion on the forum, and help more people to get their first useful machine, and one that could be trouble-shooted more easily.

RC

[JBK]

It’s realistic RC, as I’m also learning what works and what doesn’t along the way. I’m not a machinist so I accept the added cost. But hopefully stay under budget.

[Faceting Frank]

Bert doesn’t need to machine the slot RC, just adjust the position of the bearing.
JBK. I know the mast has to be close to 90deg to the base, so after fixing that. If there is any adjustment built into the lap base, so you can tilt it, then tip it to suit the mast. It’s the side to side swing your trying to line up and that is in both the the X and Y axis. If no adjustment then put shims in where its bolted on. So, you may end up with both the mast and lap aligned, but neither being perfectly aligned with the base. That’s ok as long as the mast is always facing the same way. Those digital bevel boxes are only accurate to 0.2 deg.

Your idea of a hybrid or mods to an existing machine sounds good RC.

[JBK]

Thanks Frank, makes it more interesting and enjoyable when we can bounce ideas and fixes of each other. Acknowledged the mast+base also needs to be aligned with the lap/arbor. It does have slight adjustment via the grub screw of the motor shaft.

[Ghost]

Referring to the photo showing that the mast and base is not straight even to the naked eye.
Do you have the spirit level sitting on the top of the mast foot, not on the base plate.   This would assumes that the top of the foot is parallel with the base plate.
Bottom of the foot would have been machined to tolerances, top not necessarily so.

Ghost