Crown road access sell off in NSW

[Jimnyjerry]

For some time NSW government has been selling off unformed crown roads. This may effect access to crown land and rivers for fossickers and fishermen.
info for currently proposed 'roads' here
http://roads.crownland.nsw.gov.au/

[nssian]

I hope someone is opposing these public asset sell off's ?
Once access is gone, there is no getting it back !

[Gem Ranger]

That's interesting ... who would buy these narrow corridors and for what purpose? I would imagine the neighbouring landholders might be interested but that's about it. I wonder how much these road corridors go for and whether caveats on the use of this land apply?

GR

[Findem]

No doubt most of them get incorporated into the property they pass through.
It's possible that some of them cross gem bearing creeks, but unless you track down each one separately you couldn't confirm this.
I'm reminded of a time about 20 years ago when lots of crown land leases around Torrington were sold off. Some of these include old mines and would have made great fossicking spots if they had been included in the Torrington State Conservation Area.

[colza]

Hi,

Thinking about access, I recently spoke to a mate whose mate owns a large property out past Hanging rock, Nundle area. The gist of our conversation was that I thought it was illegal to go onto private property altogether without permission of course. My mate assures me that if you can stick to a creek, then you can follow it and work in it where possible and that no one owns creeks or waterways.

I still doubt it but my mate's mate thinks it's true as well, even to the extent of encouraging blackberry growth at an obvious public access point to his creek. Anyone out there with real legal knowledge on the matter?

Cheers,
colza

[Lefty]

Hi,

Thinking about access, I recently spoke to a mate whose mate owns a large property out past Hanging rock, Nundle area. The gist of our conversation was that I thought it was illegal to go onto private property altogether without permission of course. My mate assures me that if you can stick to a creek, then you can follow it and work in it where possible and that no one owns creeks or waterways.

I still doubt it but my mate's mate thinks it's true as well, even to the extent of encouraging blackberry growth at an obvious public access point to his creek. Anyone out there with real legal knowledge on the matter?

Cheers,
colza

I've heard something to this effect colza. Riveslea crossing where I pick up petrified wood and agate is completely surrounded by private property but you cannot be stopped from going up the river. But that's a major river - at what point would something no longer be a watercourse subject to said legislation? And how far either side of the middle of the stream can you go without trespassing?

[Lefty]

For some time NSW government has been selling off unformed crown roads. This may effect access to crown land and rivers for fossickers and fishermen.

So....what does the buyer get other than a narrow strip of dirt that no government would have any obligation to maintain as a road anymore?

Off the top of my head, the only reason I could think of for buying is so you could legally bar access to wherever the road went. I would want to have a pretty good reason to want to shell out significant $$$ just for that.

Wonder how their sales are going?

[tinker]

Guys this article I found in Law Society booklet, regarding access to river banks and creeks on private property maybe of assistance.  I believe that you are able to access private land either side of flowing water courses 30 metres each side of that water way.

In most cases on larger rivers you can expect the bed and banks of any navigable waterway to the point of the mean high-water mark to be crown land.

The 'high-water mark', or in some states/territories, the 'mean high-water mark', refers to the highest point at which water normally rises. This does not take into account times of flood. It is recognised in the various legislation that this point is not constant from year to year with the changes in the shapes of waterways.

What does all this mean?

In most cases the bed of the water body and the majority of its bank is governed by Crown Lands Acts or the equivalent in each state and territory. This makes it land owned by the government and therefore often accessible to the general public as long as they do not use private land to access the water.

In situations of very old freeholds, ownership/lease of land can extend to the centre of the waterway and landowners on either side may have jurisdiction over half the waterway each. On a limited number of waterways most notably in NSW, being on a river that passes through a farm could lead you to trespassing.

It would usually be interpreted that if a waterway can be entered through public access you can expect to be able to paddle the water and set foot on its immediate banks. If you wish to venture further up the banks you will require specific permission of the landowner or lessee.

In general the advice received from legal professionals within government departments was to check with the land titles office in your state or territory or the appropriate local council as to who owns the waterways you plan to paddle and if necessary contact the landowner/lessee for the appropriate permissions before setting out on the water.

Australian Canoeing will continue to investigate paddlers' rights and responsibilities Australia-wide with references to some of the more popular destinations. Keep an eye out at www.canoe.org.au for more information.

The acts noted below provide the basis for much of the information outlined in this article: Australian Capital Territory Lakes Act of 1976,New South Wales Crown Land Act 1989, Northern Territory Crown Lands Act, Queensland Land Act 1994, South Australia Harbours and Navigation Act 1993, Tasmania Crown Lands Act 1976, Western Australia Land Administration Act 1997, Victoria Land Act 1958.

[Lefty]

Thanks for that Tinker

At what point do you think a waterway would cease to legally be such? Right up at the heads of creeks, they can become little more than a small gully.

[Lefty]

And just because I can walk up a creek bank on private property, does that necessarily mean i'm allowed to stick a pick in the ground?

[Findem]

So....what does the buyer get other than a narrow strip of dirt that no government would have any obligation to maintain as a road anymore?
There are no roads or tracks in most of these places and never were. They are reserves for future roads. I guess by now it's apparent that roads won't be needed there.  If they were, the government would resume the land they wanted anyway. Most of them are already leased to the adjoining landowner.

[Lefty]

Ah, that would explain it.

[tinker]

Lefty it doesn't mention anything about digging into the bank, so I would say that the answer to that would be no, it like all laws is not self explanetory.   But I will keep delving into it.

[QVPTimmy79]

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[colza]

Hi.

Yeah lefty & tinker the idea of staying in or on the waterway is what my mate & his mate believe to be legal. As you both point out there seem to be a few other considerations when getting out of the waterways. However, it is feasible that you can work within the bounds of the water if that is possible. In a shallow creek you could walk up it & fossick, or so it appears?

Cheers,
colza