Aussie Lapidary Forum
LAPIDARY => Gemstone Faceting => Topic started by: snappa on December 20, 2010, 11:26:38 PM
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;D
Hi
I said when I join ALF I was only going to find the sapphires NOW I see myself thinking about cutting and polishing the stones myself.
It’s because I will have time on my hands as the “one who must be obeyed” is sending me off to Moranbah to work for 3years before I retire. 4 days on 4 days off. :'(
Something about having enough money ??
So I was thinking about converting one of the bedrooms into faceting gem area.
Here is what I would like to know and any suggestions welcome
# First. I will need to cut the stones - what is the best method, what to use. Type of saw?
Remember I will be buying from ALF.
# Second. The million dollar question and I have been reading some of the articles about these machines.
So considering my experience is ZERO.
??? WHAT IS THE BEST START UP MACHINE and going into a more advanced stage of faceting?
Reading - they all say they’re the best
Facetron.
Gemmasta.
Polymetric qmf.
Xristal-tek 87.
Scintillator88. :o
:-[ As stupid as this might be - what are laps and how do you use them
Help wanted = I need guidance
beers
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Hi Snappa,
My advice is simple see if you can join or at least visit a local gemclub. They will have saws to use and faceting machines to see and try and probably faceting courses you can do.
Saws, rarely use one about 3 times in last 5 years, faceting rough is rarely big enough to need sawing!
Most facetors will tell you the machine they use is the best! My gemmaster does the job I suspect you get what you pay for.
Laps are discs usually metal which spin on the faceting machine and are used to grind flat facets on yu rough. ;) I use up to 4 laps on sapphire 320 rough cutting,1200 fine cutting,3000 prepolish , polish with 100,000 diamond on type metal.
Most everything else leave out the 3000. Apart from the polishing lap the rest are copper using diamond compound.I have replaced the 3000 prepolish lap with 14000 on a ceramic lap for sapphire but thats not for beginners perhaps.
Do yu learning with quartz or CZ rather than yu good sapphire rough.
Talk to 3 facetors and you will get 3 different opinons. Good luck!
beers Ted
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I suggest any of those machines listed (and a few others besides) will get you up and running well. There are some good quality machines on the market now that are a little more affordable (thanks to higher AU dollar at the moment).
However, it is a quite a large investment so Ted's suggestion of checking machinery out at a club if you have access to one is a very good idea.
You will need laps and there are many different ways to go here.
A saw will depend on what type and size of rough you expect to be working with. For large pieces that require a slab saw, can be easier/cheaper to use a club saw if available (not always possible). If your pieces are going to be generally quite small, you can get away without a saw or just a small (cheaper) one.
cheers
Leah
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I use a Dremel with a diamond tile cutting wheel on it for smaller cuts/trimming. I can do them dopped or not and dont need a bench.
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:-[ DOH, why didn I think of that? Good tip for the 'smalls' Cutter. 8)
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All Good advice,
Ted is so correct - there are opinions held very strongly regarding the Best Faceting Machine. Every machine is "BEST" and there are lots of opinions.
It's difficult for me to answer without someone saying I am Biased. I am I guess as I have to be to survive but our aim is to sell machines that:
1- We can supply in a timely manner.
2 - We get excellent factory support.
3- Are designed and built to work well and hold their value.
4- We can carry (and source) spares easily and keep older machines operating for decades.
5 - Machines that our customers like.
I dont sell machines where I see design or construction faults that I think may cause issues that we cannot fix or where the factory support or build times cannot be relied upon.
Regarding Saws - I actually think a Trim Saw is a must for today's Faceter.
Good Faceting Rough costs a lot of money - for best results, you need to make the best of each stone.
our takes effort,make the best of it. To get the best from rough, trim the crap off first - you can then cab that part later and get the most from your find or purchase. Trim saws need not cost a fortune.
Okay - I have acted like a politician and not really answered the question :o
We sell 15 Facetrons to one Gemmasta at today's pricing - it evens up a bit when our dollar is very low but I do not expect that any time soon. I get terrific support from the factory and any issue can be fixed quickly. The Facetron is a well refined machine - it's a pleasure to send a faceting machine out where you know the accuracy will be spot on. Repeatability on these is first class and we dont get alignment issues. We're servicing machines over 20 year old so you can trust in their staying power.
Gemmasta are sometimes a bit slow these days to fix issues - this has disappointed me with some of my customers where I feel they are getting stuffed around more then necessary which I hate!
Polymetrics are new to Australia but not to the USA. The factory also gives us first class service and support - Zane the owner loves every machine he builds and it shows. A ny new machine takes a while to get out there - we only have a handful in service here as yet but we have only had them a few months - to date no problems.
Polymetric also offers the complete range from the Budget to the finest available anywhere in the Scintillator along with a Concave machine. The Concave (OMF) will work with a variety of other machine masts including the Facetron (and others).
When all is said and done, a great machine is easier to lean on but good satisfying results can be obtained from the most Basic. A customer "Bill" bought a old Robilt and taught himself - the Gems he pulls from his pocket cut on this old machine are great. Anyone that has seen these old facetors no just how basic they are but treated with some respect they can cut good gems.
Often a phone call or two can help but its also of interest to many others so thats why it hear.
Can contact us on 1800 50 21 40 during business hours + a bit ;) Yes we were the first Lapidary shop with a Freecall number to,Ha,Ha. hotthirsty
Cheers Andrew
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thanks all and Andrew
ok
any of the faceting machines listed above will service my needs.
and last me for years and be totally satisfied years later when I can cut and polishthe sapphires.
thanks again
"Trim Saw" are they listed as a item on your for sale page
I will go and check
beers
snappa
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hi
andrew
facetron machine is a soft stop would this cause a problem for a first timer
are the polymetric a hard stop ???
snappa
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Good Questions,
Both the Facetron and Polymetric have the feature of been able to be set as Hard Stop ,Soft Stop or Both.
The instructions on both machines are similar,these are Facetron instructions quoted below.
The New Dial indicator stop system consists of a new hard stop and also the mechanical Dial indicator with a resolution of 0.0005" for dependable and accurate depths of cut. Three options are available:
1- Dial Stop only
2- Hard Stop only ( the hard stop adjustment is the black knurled screw directly under the dial indicator)
3- Both
Cheers Andrew
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Andrew,
Question about the Facetron. I read somewhere that when cutting say a pear/ heart/ shield, you know something where the design doesn't mirror that you have to 'flip' the indexes you cut on. What is it that makes the head different to others, is it placed side on or upside down to the way a dial is normally set? Trying to make this clear, sorry. Like if I placed the pin at the 96 position it's actually the 48?
Maybe if someone who owns one or had one and has now changed to another could chime in.
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mehoose
"Trying to make this clear"
clear as mud to me. --- ???
maybe one day I will understand and this is my point about buying a faceting machine
the one I choose, will it do these things you are talking about?
" Like if I placed the pin at the 96 position it's actually the 48?"
I only KNOW the other position. :P
beers snappa
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hi andrew
just read about the soft and hard stop for the facetron
I have $3500 MAX to waste on a start up cut and polish machine
looking for a big bang for my $$$$
please pm me with any kind of DEAL
beers
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Mehoose,
First I have heard of this,I cannot see the Logic as the Index and Head are basically the same design?
I would need to check with Jeff on that one but I will leave bothering him to after Christmas as I no they are snowed under getting Christmas machines away.
Will send you some options to consider ready to go Today Snapper.
Cheers Andrew
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Thanks Andrew.
Apparently, tho I'm not saying it's gospel, is that it comes into play after you transfer. So there's no issues on eg the pav if you've cut that first, it's the cutting after transfer. Wonder if there's something about it in their book?
Where's all the Facetron users when you need em? ;)
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Gday all Alf members further to above posts i have an old Gemmasta 2 and thinking of upgradeing Can some polymetric users post to give us a review on the machine they bought It looks to be good but first hand review from an experienced user who has changed to one would be interesting.
Cheers
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Hi all,
Mehoose... Some machines have the locating pin at the bottom of the faceting arm / handpiece (eg most Hall Designs), whereas most machines have the locating pin at the top. This doesn't cause a problem with transferring as 96 is in the same position both before and after.
However, it does cause you to think carefully when dopping for the shapes you mentioned otherwise you may have dopped the narrow part of the stone at the end where the diagram wants to put the wide end.
Three solutions. Think carefully when dopping for non-symetrical shapes. Redop the stone. Transpose the facet numbers for both the pavilion and crown. Not really a problem if you use the first solution.
Regards,
Merry Christmas to everyone.
Ghost
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AHA...thanks Ghost, that makes perfect sense now. Can stop scratching the head, that must have been what they were relating it to, the pin position.
You have a good one. :-*
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Thanks Andrew
Great prices and now considering which one. ???
Tonite’s decision is not to go south. :'(
Weather
I have decided to stay home and finish off the pulsator.
When the weather is more predictable a fishing trip for sure. I need to wet the gills before I head off to moranbah. :)
beers snappa
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Hi Snapper,
Yes the weather looks lousy for at least the next 5 days :'(
Following up on my PM from last night Zane from Polymetric advised me he could get a Polymetric Xristal-Tek 99
finished and on its way by the end of December which would have it in our warehouse Mid January.
Cheers Andrew
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I'm relatively new to the faceting game, but here's my 2c...My faceting teacher swears by Facetron. I've not used one, so I can't speak for myself there. At my club they have a few different machines. I cut my very first stone on a Gemmasta, the second on a VJ, and the rest have been on a DIY machine and a cheapie head I bought from Gerald Wykhoff. If money was no object (if it wasn't, I would not have gone to the effort of DIY), I would be tempted to get a VJ. Why? It is the only machine I've seen that raises the grinding laps UP to meet the faceting head, instead of moving the faceting head DOWN to meet the grinding lap. What this means is that you dont' have to crane your neck/strain your eyes so far to see the polished facets, because the machine's design puts the stone closer to your head. Consider if you have any pre-existing neck or shoulder injuries - if you can get in front of a machine, see how close you can get the stone to your face, without leaning in, and what angle you have to hold your arm as you cut the stone. Holding your arm elbow-high will strain your shoulders unless you develop work-habits to counteract this.
If you want another source of machine reviews and a better idea of what laps to buy if you're focussing on sapphire, see Jeff Graham's pages. Start here http://www.faceters.com/beginners.shtml (http://www.faceters.com/beginners.shtml)
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Hey Snappa
Rik here mate , Dave called in on weekend and said hi the creek crossing is all good now , hard to get much work done but u got to socialise right lol.
Helped Terry my brother set his plant up just behind us and will be heading back out on Fri hopefully to do some digging so will catch up with you when ya get here.
Rik.