Aussie Lapidary Forum
LAPIDARY => Gemstone Faceting => Topic started by: cliffsearch on February 20, 2018, 02:56:26 PM
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Hi does anyone have the design for "CLEOPATRA'S EYE" I believe it's by Bob Keller. I should have downloaded the design from Bobsrockshop while the website was up. Now it's down again, there's no way of getting it. I did manage to try out the PHARAOH'S EYE though..... Thanks Cliff
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The internet archive's "wayback machine" doesn't have bandwidth issues. ;D
https://web.archive.org/web/20170322063723/http://www.rockhounds.com/rockshop/gem_designs/design_index.shtml
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Thanks for that Rej, it's a site I used regularly up until it disappeared. I'll save that link now.
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Thanks Rej....Your absolutely brilliant. Now I have a printout and also saved the link.
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Just finished the pavilion but have heard C1 on crown may be off about 4 deg. Cliff did you get yours done? Crown is much harder I've heard. There's a video on gemology forum with an Aussie cutting it.
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I have a copy of the design and have just cut it in Citrine, tricky, but came up well.
Watched the Vintagetimes video on Youtube, C1 ended up at the wrong meet point, should meet the second facet line in from the point. Barion 1 covers 2 x P1 facets, C1 has to do the same with the C6 series. At 53.95 degrees C1 works fine, the trick I found when cutting the crown is to cut C1 then cut the 24 x C6 facets before cutting in C2-C5, then everything should line up nicely. Anyway that's the way I did it.
Finished stone: https://www.prospectingaustralia.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=536367#p536367
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Thanks for the tips on cutting the Cleopatra's Eye, might have another go in the next few months. I tried once a while back, the pavilion went in just fine, but I chickened out on the crown, and ended up doing a 'custom' crown.
On a related topic, has anyone got an open-source faceting design they're willing to share for an updated Pharaoh's Eye type of design (for 96 Index) and even better would work for RI = 1.54?
Thanks,
RC
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Yes, the design I cut is 1.54 and 96 index.
No idea how I add a PDF to this forum, so if someone can provide the 'how to' I'll supply the diagrams.
The cut has been used for a competition some years ago, so should be ok to share.
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With the crown being harder to cut maybe it should be cut first. Machine aliment and transfer makes the crown a bitch. I'm trying to cut C6 and it is. lol
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Yes, the design I cut is 1.54 and 96 index.
No idea how I add a PDF to this forum, so if someone can provide the 'how to' I'll supply the diagrams.
The cut has been used for a competition some years ago, so should be ok to share.
That sounds great. There is a Downloads section on the Forum, but it looks to be for more formal stuff. If you can convert the pdf to an image file, then it could be placed in the Gallery?
If you are not sure how to convert the diagram PM me and I can do it,
thanks,
RC.
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Print it.
Scan it.
Post it as an image.
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With the crown being harder to cut maybe it should be cut first. Machine aliment and transfer makes the crown a bitch. I'm trying to cut C6 and it is. lol
If you get through C6 unscathed, looks like C7 could end it all.
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Yes, the design I cut is 1.54 and 96 index.
No idea how I add a PDF to this forum, so if someone can provide the 'how to' I'll supply the diagrams.
The cut has been used for a competition some years ago, so should be ok to share.
I Just realised the obvious, there is an Attachment and other options section at the bottom of the Post Reply dialog where it is a piece of cake to add pdf attachments to any post.
RC
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I have a copy of the design and have just cut it in Citrine, tricky, but came up well.
Watched the Vintagetimes video on Youtube, C1 ended up at the wrong meet point, should meet the second facet line in from the point. Barion 1 covers 2 x P1 facets, C1 has to do the same with the C6 series. At 53.95 degrees C1 works fine, the trick I found when cutting the crown is to cut C1 then cut the 24 x C6 facets before cutting in C2-C5, then everything should line up nicely. Anyway that's the way I did it.
Finished stone: https://www.prospectingaustralia.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=536367#p536367 (https://www.prospectingaustralia.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=536367#p536367)
I agree on cutting the C6 facets after C1. Set the depth on indexes 22, 26, 70, 74 then cut the remain facets to same depth. It is important to have the angles the same on these facets to make tiers C7 & C8 easy to cut. Can adjust C2, C3, C4 & C5 if needed.I think you cut it the right way. :)
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Yes, the design I cut is 1.54 and 96 index.
No idea how I add a PDF to this forum, so if someone can provide the 'how to' I'll supply the diagrams.
The cut has been used for a competition some years ago, so should be ok to share.
I Just realised the obvious, there is an Attachment and other options section at the bottom of the Post Reply dialog where it is a piece of cake to add pdf attachments to any post.
RC
I think the attachments folder is not very large so gets filled up and items deleted. I'm not sure if you can upload pdf's into the gallery(worth a try). You could convert the pdf into a jpeg.
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It's a while since I did any faceting so I just entered this into Gemcut studio, it looks to be a fairly dead cut so I twiddled with the angles, the crown angles didn't have much of an effect, but by dropping the P1 angle down to about 38.44, B1 66.75, B2 67.16, B3 67.82, B4 68.21, B5 68.34 it should be a much brighter stone. the iris is still dark so the eye effect isn't lost.
my 2cents worth.
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See if this works.
A bit of advice, make sure your machine is accurate and your polishing laps are flat and running true, if they're not, don't even think about trying to cut this.
It fairly challenging even when you're laps are true.
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See if this works.
A bit of advice, make sure your machine is accurate and your polishing laps are flat and running true, if they're not, don't even think about trying to cut this.
It fairly challenging even when you're laps are true.
I find getting the transfer exactly spot on is also very important that is why I'm now using dop clamps not the gemmasta V grove.
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I'll have a go at this one, but with a bit of glass first, I like to pick something a bit harder.
By the way MakkyBrown, I'm cutting Stargazing out of your book, using smoky Quatz at the moment
Cheers
Prooz
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I'll have a go at this one, but with a bit of glass first, I like to pick something a bit harder.
By the way MakkyBrown, I'm cutting Stargazing out of your book, using smoky Quatz at the moment
Cheers
Prooz
That's exactly what I'm doing, too!, just about to start P2.
(http://aussielapidaryforum.com/forum/gallery/9/medium_112303-310320110925.jpeg) (http://aussielapidaryforum.com/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=9167)
RC
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See if this works.
A bit of advice, make sure your machine is accurate and your polishing laps are flat and running true, if they're not, don't even think about trying to cut this.
It fairly challenging even when you're laps are true.
Thanks a lot, Got It!
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I'll have a go at this one, but with a bit of glass first, I like to pick something a bit harder.
By the way MakkyBrown, I'm cutting Stargazing out of your book, using smoky Quatz at the moment
Cheers
Prooz
That's exactly what I'm doing, too!, just about to start P2.
(http://aussielapidaryforum.com/forum/gallery/9/medium_112303-310320110925.jpeg) (http://aussielapidaryforum.com/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=9167)
RC
I have only cut it in topaz. Hopefully it has enough power for the smoky given the L/W. Looking forward to the results. If you colour the stone in with black texta before cutting P2, it makes it easy to see the preform facets being cut away.
Cheers
MB
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Have cut it in Green Quatz and has plenty of sparkle, just starting the polish on the pavilion with the smoky. Will put photos up when finished.
Cheers
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It's an interesting design as it is asymmetrical on the pavilion. Good to cut so far. My stone is more of a citrine than a smoky per se.
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I find getting the transfer exactly spot on is also very important that is why I'm now using dop clamps not the gemmasta V grove.
What are dop clamps? Is this something you have devised?
My Facetron's transfer jig is pretty well made, but it still surprises me how much cheater I have to routinely apply post transfer before starting the crown. There has got to be a more accurate way.
RC
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I find getting the transfer exactly spot on is also very important that is why I'm now using dop clamps not the gemmasta V grove.
What are dop clamps? Is this something you have devised?
My Facetron's transfer jig is pretty well made, but it still surprises me how much cheater I have to routinely apply post transfer before starting the crown. There has got to be a more accurate way.
RC
No not my idea but I made myself(pictured) some nice ones with stainless thumbs screws. The hardest bit was drilling the holes for the screws/threads perfectly.If I was making a lot I'd made up an alignment jig for drilling.
(http://aussielapidaryforum.com/forum/gallery/9/medium_5704-220319195644.jpeg) (http://aussielapidaryforum.com/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=9053)
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Interesting. However I don't get how you would use this to transfer - if you had a dop in another clamp, how would you ensure they were on the same axis when gluing?
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You set your hand piece at 96 with the cheater in the same position you started cutting the pav at, then clamp on the dop clamp with it's feet flat on your master lap. You then transfer with the clamp attached. After the glue is dry remove from transfer jig and put the new transfered dop into the hand piece collet with the feet on the dop clamp sitting level on the master lap then tighten. Then swap the dop clamp to the new dop with feet level. Then you can remove the new dop from the collet to remove the old dop. And then put the new dop back in the collet/feet level on master lap, tighten, remove clamp.
I'm not very good at explaining :) hopefully you get the idea. Doesn't take long to do using the thumb screws.I do use the alignment groves aswell, this works as a back up if the super glue holding the first dop to the stone comes unstuck. But if all goes well the grove isn't needed and the dop clamps give a perfect transfer.
MB
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Ah, yes I get it now, I have seen something similar before in my travels come to think of it.
Cheers,
RC
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You all inspired me to start making eye designs. Got a bit out of hand and now have well over a hundred different versions of eyes scatter across my laptop and desktop. Some are really nice. I just cut this one in spinel. It's not too bad. Darken the rough a bit so best for lighter gem materials. Was a bit tricky to photograph as the camera lens cast a bit of head shadow on the small table.I'll be releasing this in the free designs section on my webpage probably next week after I sequence it.
https://facetingdesigns.com/ (https://facetingdesigns.com/)
(http://aussielapidaryforum.com/forum/gallery/9/medium_5704-100420180144.jpeg) (http://aussielapidaryforum.com/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=9187)
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Wow that looks good MB. I am just polishing the pavilion, Cleopatra's Eye. when it's finished, then I'll play around with the camera again and try to get a half decent photo. IF the crown goes ok for me. Taking extra care.
Cheers Prooz
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Wow Andrew that’s a brilliant picture of a stone.
Also that’s the first time I’ve seen your website. Amazing designs and the pictures are out of this world.
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Wow that looks good MB. I am just polishing the pavilion, Cleopatra's Eye. when it's finished, then I'll play around with the camera again and try to get a half decent photo. IF the crown goes ok for me. Taking extra care.
Cheers Prooz
Oh yeah, take that extra care, nothing(well there is) worse than over cutting one of the last facets and having to re-cut them all ::) Goodluck.
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Wow Andrew that’s a brilliant picture of a stone.
Also that’s the first time I’ve seen your website. Amazing designs and the pictures are out of this world.
Thanks Frank, I've only recently got the photos to a quality level I'm fairly happy with it's taken awhile.
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I finished it yesterday.
It really darkens a stone, my raw material had just a hint of smokey, the finished stone has a nice depth of smokey citriny colour.
I went with my modified pavilion angles and the result turned out really nice light return and flash.
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You all inspired me to start making eye designs. Got a bit out of hand and now have well over a hundred different versions of eyes scatter across my laptop and desktop. Some are really nice. I just cut this one in spinel. It's not too bad. Darken the rough a bit so best for lighter gem materials. Was a bit tricky to photograph as the camera lens cast a bit of head shadow on the small table.I'll be releasing this in the free designs section on my webpage probably next week after I sequence it.
That's a stunner, really looking forward to seeing the details, wonder how it'll look in Topaz, got a bit piece set aside for something special. Maybe some of the gang could test cut some of the other designs?
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It might just be good in topaz, crown will be quiet high. I can get the face up pattern 1.61 and up. I've made a start/optimizing for a range of RI's hopefully I'll have the pdf on my webpage by mid this coming week at the latest :)MB
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I have a copy of the design and have just cut it in Citrine, tricky, but came up well.
Watched the Vintagetimes video on Youtube, C1 ended up at the wrong meet point, should meet the second facet line in from the point. Barion 1 covers 2 x P1 facets, C1 has to do the same with the C6 series. At 53.95 degrees C1 works fine, the trick I found when cutting the crown is to cut C1 then cut the 24 x C6 facets before cutting in C2-C5, then everything should line up nicely. Anyway that's the way I did it.
Finished stone: https://www.prospectingaustralia.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=536367#p536367
Hi my name is Cliff from vintage time. What you said is true. What you may not know is that if you facet the pavilion according to the original design is that you will need to create a fairly thick girdle else the C1 facets end up chopping out on the corners as many have done. I'm guessing that your girdle outline is pretty thick to avoid this happening? The reason for this is the B2 facets are out by 0.36 degrees. This means you can keep faceting the crown as is, but you will have a girdle that is way too thick which makes the crown look out of proportion. Or you you can invert the crown facets and change the angle by about 4 degrees, so you have a respectable girdle outline. In order to do this the B2 facets will also need to be adjusted as these facets are the main culprit in why the end corners get chopped away whilst cutting in the C1 facets. For those who facet the Cleopatra's Eye according to the original angles the gem will either have a very thick girdle or the corners are chopped out. There a several examples like mine with a thinner girdle where the inverted C1 facets meet the B1 facets. Either way, all methods are a compromise. However, I have further tweaked the design that the girdle can be thinner as it should be and the C1 facets will meet the second facet line. I will test your method, but I suspect that the C1 facets cannot be cut down too deep creating a normal girdle outline. Cheers
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I have a copy of the design and have just cut it in Citrine, tricky, but came up well.
Watched the Vintagetimes video on Youtube, C1 ended up at the wrong meet point, should meet the second facet line in from the point. Barion 1 covers 2 x P1 facets, C1 has to do the same with the C6 series. At 53.95 degrees C1 works fine, the trick I found when cutting the crown is to cut C1 then cut the 24 x C6 facets before cutting in C2-C5, then everything should line up nicely. Anyway that's the way I did it.
Finished stone: https://www.prospectingaustralia.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=536367#p536367
Hi my name is Cliff from vintage time. What you said is true. What you may not know is that if you facet the pavilion according to the original design is that you will need to create a fairly thick girdle else the C1 facets end up chopping out on the corners as many have done. I'm guessing that your girdle outline is pretty thick to avoid this happening? The reason for this is the B2 facets are out by 0.36 degrees. This means you can keep faceting the crown as is, but you will have a girdle that is way too thick which makes the crown look out of proportion. Or you you can invert the crown facets and change the angle by about 4 degrees, so you have a respectable girdle outline. In order to do this the B2 facets will also need to be adjusted as these facets are the main culprit in why the end corners get chopped away whilst cutting in the C1 facets. For those who facet the Cleopatra's Eye according to the original angles the gem will either have a very thick girdle or the corners are chopped out. There a several examples like mine with a thinner girdle where the inverted C1 facets meet the B1 facets. Either way, all methods are a compromise. However, I have further tweaked the design that the girdle can be thinner as it should be and the C1 facets will meet the second facet line. I will test your method, but I suspect that the C1 facets cannot be cut down too deep creating a normal girdle outline. Cheers
Hi Cliff
Just measured my gem, it's approx 15mm long and the girdle is even at 0.6mm measured on my graticule.