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Author Topic: New Lap Resurface Service  (Read 5708 times)

Aussie Sapphire

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New Lap Resurface Service
« on: February 17, 2013, 05:17:36 PM »
Metal and Copper Laps should last for decades but they can be damaged by dropping, gouging and contamination of incorrect grits or just unknown history. However, in most cases laps can be fixed cheaply and extend their useful life.

Aussie Sapphire now offers a lap resurfacing service - $44 to renew your 6" lap and much less for more than one at a time is not much to get your old laps as good as new.

As a Qualified Fitter & Turner by Trade and with Jon's help (Gearloose - the Maker of BATT's etc in the USA), we are now tooled up with the very latest diamond cutting tools and lathe jigs.  The finish will in almost all cases be much better than original so definitely worth considering.

There is the odd exception where poor alloys are used or other unexpected situations but we can discuss this if needed.

We also have a fully equipped Engineering Workshop on site with the latest Lathes, Milling machines, Bearing Pullers, Press, Metal Cutting and Folding gear to fix almost any problem so we can repair or rebuild most Lapidary Gear to as new condition.

A sneak peek of the Workshop as we were moving in to the new Warehouse late last year - more gear is now in place and the workshop is really well set up:



Edited by admin to add the link to listing.

Cheers Andrew
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 05:19:44 PM by Aussie Sapphire »
Aussie Sapphire - The Lapidary Warehouse

Jay

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Re: New Lap Resurface Service
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2013, 07:00:56 PM »
This is an excellent service Andrew and the price is good in comparison!!! Jay

Butts

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Re: New Lap Resurface Service
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2013, 08:02:09 PM »
sounds good

Cheers Butts

agemcutr

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Re: New Lap Resurface Service
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2013, 08:03:36 PM »
This is good news for me.
Ive been remachining laps for decades but cant satisfy the engineer/facetor with his dial indicator.
Apparantly my lathe has a larger runout than most faceting machines. I make my own diamond tools being a diamond cutter and have a better lathe than yours pictured.But its still not good enough.In fact Ive stopped making laps altogether.Im not even game to remachine my battwing, so Im so happy Jon has given you instruction so you get to do the fancy stuff.I do however still offer a very cheap club lap remachining service to do my part.I can still dress sintered laps and wheels only if Andrew cant.

Regards Anthony

Gearloose

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Re: New Lap Resurface Service
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2013, 05:16:02 AM »
Quote
Apparantly my lathe has a larger runout than most faceting machines. I make my own diamond tools being a diamond cutter and have a better lathe than yours pictured.But its still not good enough.
My lathe was built in 1952, though it has been rescraped and rebuilt and heavily modified over the years.

http://www.gearloose.com/sba.html

  It's really more in the fixturing than anything else. The lap MUST be supported radially and rear or you will get wedge, and the lap will hop. It does not matter if you have a new Clausing, or one of these

« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 05:17:37 AM by Gearloose »

agemcutr

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Re: New Lap Resurface Service
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2013, 08:57:34 AM »
I have a backing plate made of 4140 steel with an aluminium plate attached. Its supported  thru the headstock and locked at the rear (not too tightly)
When I do a lap run I remachine the face plate.I make or modify diamond tip tools for the best finish and I use the highest speed and lowest feed. My lathe is a CL 38 purchased new 2012.
Ive had machinists look at my setup and say its setup the best way and the finish is excellent.
The trend Ive noticed is that its those who own the Halls patriot and other models by the same manufacturer are the ones who need constant remachining of laps. Ive tested the laps on my gemmasta and they were perfect.
Ive dedicated my life to the pursuit of the perfect faceting lap system and have had a few breakthrus this week and are now down to 45 minutes a std brill 10mm.Still short of my younger days.
Im back to full time cutting and making sintered tools for the American facetors as there is no market here for fantasy faceting.

Aussie Sapphire

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Re: New Lap Resurface Service
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2013, 09:09:29 AM »
I have a backing plate made of 4140 steel with an aluminium plate attached. Its supported  thru the headstock and locked at the rear (not too tightly)
When I do a lap run I remachine the face plate.I make or modify diamond tip tools for the best finish and I use the highest speed and lowest feed. My lathe is a CL 38 purchased new 2012.
Ive had machinists look at my setup and say its setup the best way and the finish is excellent.
The trend Ive noticed is that its those who own the Halls patriot and other models by the same manufacturer are the ones who need constant remachining of laps. Ive tested the laps on my gemmasta and they were perfect.
...

Probably not a problem with the lathe then ??

We have been keen to get some feedback on the Jersey Instruments machines - we gave up the dealership after being disappointed with the Omni but have not seen either the Tom Thumb or the newer version Omni's (now called the Patriot).  Doesnt seem to be a lot of internet feedback around on these machines so wondering how they are.  Your experience with the need for remachined laps on them is an interesting one though.

cheers
Leah
Aussie Sapphire - The Lapidary Warehouse

agemcutr

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Re: New Lap Resurface Service
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2013, 09:47:40 AM »
The ultimate problem is the facetor.
With computer generated diagrams and digtal readouts to 3 decimal places and dial indicators in the hands of amatur toolmakers(not all) they see any movement of the needle and call it runout.
My margins were too low to pay for return postage of items on a regular basis so calling it was the cheaper option.

Regards Anthony........ God Bless America$$$$$$$$$$$

Gearloose

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Re: New Lap Resurface Service
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2013, 12:33:45 PM »
Quote
With computer generated diagrams and digtal readouts to 3 decimal places and dial indicators in the hands of amatur toolmakers(not all) they see any movement of the needle and call it runout.

Yeah, I get a few like that every year.  Presently, I have an ex-toolmaker who wants a Blanchard Ground surface on the cheapest lap I make.

No, your setup is fine.
 Put something with a 1/4 wave lapped surface on a crooked machine, guess what happens?  You get hate mail!

It's the only part of the job I don't like.  Try telling General Motors you want Class 5 fasteners for every nut and bolt in the car you bought, and you just KNOW what they'd tell you, if they bothered answering at all.

Aussie Sapphire

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Re: New Lap Resurface Service
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2013, 07:00:09 PM »
So True.  Often expectations exceed the basic Laws of Engineering and Physics ::) 
I know I will get them too - partly why I steered clear for a while but customers want the service so it's now here. First rule of business is listen to your customers.

Example: get a Length of Solid 1"/ 25.4mm Bright Shaft - one would consider that Strong but if you lift a 6m Length 500mm in the air, both ends will touch the Floor hotthirsty
Take a 500mm length and if you push on it, there will be a Readable Deflection from any decent Dial Gauge - it's just a fact.

What faceters need to get back to is what engineers have fought with and learned to live with since the most basic Machining Device was invented - get to know your Machine and its feel and make it work for you. If you want to fight it, the machine will most likely win.

Seen so many fantastic operators using such basic gear - the end result is often more in the operators hands, than the Machines. Having said that, a good machine will make life easier and the job more fun so upgrade when and where you want to.
   
We get that in other stuff and understand for thousands of happy customers, there are always some that you will not be able to meet their expectations. That's Business but we still try and usually succeed  :P

I did my Trade as a "Fitter and Turner /Automotive" (In Australia, was known as a specialist engine rebuilder). Things like Crankshaft Grinding had to be worked to tiny tolerances - on the old Crankshaft Grinding Machine we had, it was always a challenge but we fixed her up to be spot on every time.

Quote
The trend Ive noticed is that its those who own the Halls patriot and other models by the same manufacturer are the ones who need constant remachining of laps. Ive tested the laps on my gemmasta and they were perfect.

It should be strongly noted here that both the Patriot and Tom Thumb are not Hall Machines at all but a USA copy. The Australian-made Halls are a different matter but the relationship with the USA maker has broken down irrevocably. Not really for us to comment but better for those interested to hear the story from Laurie himself: http://www.cfmgs.org/uploads/thumblicker_october9.PDF  (scroll down to page 5).

The older Hall Machines I have always liked but cannot stock the current model (or parts for older ones) as they dont support Dealers.  We were the first Australian dealers that tried Jersey Instruments with the USA copy of the Hall Xtra but dropped them after the very first order as the Quality was just not there. Although they are still marketed as a collaborative effort with Hall, we were very clearly told to drop any such reference to this as it was not accurate in Laurie's opinion (and fair enough really).

We had this supplier as Exclusive Australian Dealers but I will not stock gear that I am not happy with (in either build quality or dealer/customer support) so they are out  8)   


Keep going Agemcutr - all anyone can do is their very best and if that Aint good enough, then So What! ::)

 

cheers Andrew
   
Aussie Sapphire - The Lapidary Warehouse

Taz

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Re: New Lap Resurface Service
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2013, 02:04:20 PM »
We were the first Australian dealers that tried Jersey Instruments with the USA copy of the Hall Xtra but dropped them after the very first order as the Quality was just not there.

I was lead to an article on the Jersey Instruments machine some time ago by the AussieSapphire site and note that it addressed quite a number of specific failings with the machines.  I should note here that I have absolutely no link with Jersey Instruments or any of the dealers stocking their machines in Australia or overseas.  My only link is that I own a Tomthumb that I purchased a couple of years ago so while my experience is not with dealer support I can comment on the quality of the machine and the currency of the failings I noted in the document that Aussiesapphire led me to.  My memory of that document is a little old but from what I recall those failings have been corrected in the latest machines and for the price I paid in comparison to a Gemmasta I am quite happy with it.  I also own a MK4 Gemmasta and there is no comparison, the Gemmasta is by far the better machine but then it should be considering the price gap. 

I don't know how the Tomthumb compares with machines of an equivalent price, Andrew is probably the best one to answer that, and there is no doubt that support must b a consideration, but I do know that compared to my old retired Topaz Tech and Agate Masters it is a dream come true.  Does it have problems, yes, the angle cheater leaves much to be desired and the blockiness of the head is annoying when you need to have the mast close to the lap as it catches on the side of the lap guard (don't know the real name for it).  However, I think it may be time to put to rest any concerns about the earlier failings and present a more up to date comparison against machines of equivalent pricing.

Aussie Sapphire

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Re: New Lap Resurface Service
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2013, 02:20:03 PM »

...I don't know how the Tomthumb compares with machines of an equivalent price, Andrew is probably the best one to answer that, and there is no doubt that support must b a consideration, but I do know that compared to my old retired Topaz Tech and Agate Masters it is a dream come true.  Does it have problems, yes, the angle cheater leaves much to be desired and the blockiness of the head is annoying when you need to have the mast close to the lap as it catches on the side of the lap guard (don't know the real name for it).  However, I think it may be time to put to rest any concerns about the earlier failings and present a more up to date comparison against machines of equivalent pricing.

Good to have some feedback.  Cannot comment on the Tom Thumb at all - have never seen this one close-up so good to get some info out there on this model.

It is always worth while doing your own research when selecting a machine - none will be absolutely perfect and you will hear many different (and usually strongly held) opinions about any brand. Take notice of the feedback but ultimately the decision is yours taking into account price, features, etc.

As we have mentioned above, a good faceter can cut a good stone on ANY machine - some make the job a little easier than others, some are more expensive than others, some have more bells and whistles but the most important requirement is skill, experience and an open mind.

Happy for anyone to contribute further to this topic - perhaps on a new/dedicated thread. However, Taz is the very first owner to post his experience with this model/make. As long as it does not turn into a "machine war" thread (people getting upset is not fun), it can be very useful for people considering a new machine to hear of others' experiences, advice and tips. We are dealers for some brands - NOT ALL - but would never claim to be the final word on this topic.  ALF is for the benefit of all in the lapidary community so feel free to contribute useful (and polite) opinion on which machines work for you.

cheers
Leah
Aussie Sapphire - The Lapidary Warehouse

Taz

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Re: New Lap Resurface Service
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2013, 02:03:22 PM »
It is always worth while doing your own research when selecting a machine - none will be absolutely perfect and you will hear many different (and usually strongly held) opinions about any brand. Take notice of the feedback but ultimately the decision is yours taking into account price, features, etc.
Leah, I notice you have some other brands of machine for sale that are in a similar price range e.g. Graves and Polymetric for starters.  Perhaps anyone who owns one of them might like to comment on their likes and dislikes with these machines.  I'm sure there are a lot of budding faceters out there contemplating a purchase one day who might benefit from others knowledge of these machines.  Not everyone can afford one of the better ones.

Also don't let my defence of the Tomthumb sway anyone from doing their research.  I was attempting to point out that evaluations that are several years old shouldn't always be relied upon unless someone is buying a second hand machine of around that age.  Manufacturers are all hopefully listening to their clientelle and making improvements in areas of dissatisfaction.  There are definitely things I don't like about the Tombthumb but it doesn't deserve the critique that was in the old review from quite a few years ago.

Also this doesn't seem to be the place for this type of discussion, perhaps it needs to be moved to a thread of its own?

Aussie Sapphire

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Re: New Lap Resurface Service
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2013, 02:26:59 PM »
Agreed - that was what I was trying to get at. We encourage everyone to post their experiences as it does help potential purchasers make a decision.

I should also point out that our review is NOT of the Tom Thumb machine but the old Omni which is now being marketed as the Patriot - there may have been upgrades or changes to the design of this model but we have not been able to find out specifics of these.

We make no comment (positive or negative) about the Tom Thumb as we simply have not seen one and are not in a position to have an opinion.

Remember always that this is definitely a matter of personal opinion so take everyone's with the appropriate grain of salt (including ours  8) ) - ultimately you have to weigh it all up and make the best decision for your situation.

cheers
Leah
Aussie Sapphire - The Lapidary Warehouse

 

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