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Author Topic: Small miners and fossickers - we need a voice.  (Read 28997 times)

Lefty

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Small miners and fossickers - we need a voice.
« on: April 21, 2016, 06:19:55 AM »
As suggested by PC Bowe, here is a thread to discuss the continual threat to the viability of small scale mining (generally precious stone mining and including the activity of prospecting) and to the rights of recreational fossickers.

I don't have time to write a long intro but it seems clear to me that we desperately need representation to those who make policy for without it, our existence is not even a consideration when decisions that could affect us are made. Other groups with competing interests in the same lands all have voices in the halls of policy making but we have none. We therefore cannot realistically expect too many outcomes that are positive for us. It is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease, regardless of how badly the other wheels might also need it.

I think we need a united body to argue for the rights of small miners and fossickers. Representitives of the Sapphire Miners Association (I believe there is a body in both QLD and NSW) and the opal miners associations could unite with reps from the nations lapidary and fossicking clubs to form a lobby group of some sort.

Ok, I have go and I'm just throwing out a few ideas here, hopefully that gets the ball rolling. If we don't take a united stand, we will end up being squished out of existence.

Lefty

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Re: Small miners and fossickers - we need a voice.
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2016, 06:20:24 AM »
Mods/Admin, could we get this thread stickied please?

diesel

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Re: Small miners and fossickers - we need a voice.
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2016, 08:49:43 AM »
I
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 08:54:32 AM by diesel »

diesel

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Re: Small miners and fossickers - we need a voice.
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2016, 10:21:46 AM »
A glitch in that last post.

It is an interesting topic Lefty and as much as I understand your anger and frustration over the way you have been treated in relation to your claim application, I do not share your view on the future of small scale mining here on the Central Qld gemfields or anywhere in Qld. I cannot comment about the situation in other states due to it being a different jurisdiction.

During the past 25 years here on the CQ gemfields I have witnessed such blatant disregard for legislation by a lot of claim holders that I have formed the opinion that if the DMNR decided to come in and wield a big stick to enforce the legislation (that we all agreed to in our claim applications), then a huge number of claim holders would be served with notices to quit. As it is, DMNR are very lenient in the way that the legislation is administered and enforced and you don’t have to look far to see evidence of that.

Just in my immediate area there are 7 claims that are occupied by the claim holders and they have not turned a shovel full of dirt in the past 4 to 5 years. Look around the fields and there are many, many more the same and they get away with it because DMNR are prepared to turn a blind eye to most of the minor non compliance issues and some of the more serious issues go under the radar.

If you believe that we should be getting a better deal from both state and local government then you have got to make sure that things are “squeaky clean” on our side of the fence before the battle lines are drawn up.

In the unlikely event that the QSMA united with other mining groups to take on state government, do you honestly believe that there would not be some sort of retaliation by the relevant authorities, mainly in the form of legislation enforcement for all non compliance issues.
 
As to the rights of recreational fossickers, there is also concern that not all of them do the right thing in regards to compliance. You only need to visit Graves Hill during the tourist season to observe how many are fossicking outside of the designated area. Both Graves Hill & Big Bessie attract the same fossickers back each year and nobody can convince me that they all have a currents fossickers license or have paid for a camping permit.
 
It is really a case of be careful what you wish for Lefty, because it could go full circle and come back to bite. I, along with a lot of others here rely on the annual influx of tourists to supplement my income through the Sunday Sapphire markets and painting the wrong image of the gemfields could definitely be detrimental to what a lot of us believe to be an idyllic lifestyle.

Yank a dog by the tail and sooner or later it will turn around and bite.

I’ve had my rant – I feel better now.


Lefty

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Re: Small miners and fossickers - we need a voice.
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2016, 12:30:33 PM »
I think Diesel's post exemplifies the problems that we small mining and prospecting types have  - many of us are very individualistic (some of us even a little reclusive) by nature and I am no exception. I choose to do a job that allows me to work largely as my own boss with relatively minimal contact with others in the workplace. Every supervisor I have had in 20 years has commented on how lonely the job must be, but I don't see it that way. The small amount of interaction I have with co-workers is all that I want and I like it that way. I choose to live out of town in a quiet spot, even though you have better access to a lot more things living in town. I wouldn't like my quiet lifestyle intruded upon either. Individualistic types are often not the "stand together" type.

But I'm going to get straight to the point Diesel. A bunch of people have just borne the brunt of a pretty unjust act and some of them are probably people just like you. This time it wasn't you - but if it had been you, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. Details remain sketchy but it wasn't just me and my application, it was at least a dozen active tenures I'm told and some of these are likely permanent residents - people like you. I'm quite sure they didn't want their peaceful lifestyle disturbed either but it slammed down on them like a bolt from the blue - and I would say it's not in spite of the fact that nobody stood up but because of it.

I understand your concerns about how being vocal about rights may end up drawing attention to disregard for small mining and fossicking laws and the possibility of a big compliance stick being wielded. What I don't understand is why anyone would think that rights that currently exist are somehow "God-given" and will exist forever as long as we sit quietly and make no noise.

There are others with their own interests in the same lands who have no fear of any repercussions, who have hold of policy-makers ears and who will continue to endlessly press for legislation that suits their own agenda but which impinges upon people like us. And they will continue to succeed so long as none of us say anything. If you doubt what I'm saying then you must have missed what just happened.

Your concerns are valid but I must disagree that the best course of action is to sit mute, cringe each time we see the big hammer falling and hope that it misses us. I would have said "and hits someone else instead" but I'm sure you wouldn't wish that on anyone - but that is exactly what has just happened it will continue to happen.

BTW - if you aren't breaking any mining laws...what would you have to fear yourself?


diesel

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Re: Small miners and fossickers - we need a voice.
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2016, 02:12:03 PM »
G’day Lefty,

You seem to have missed something that I stated in my last post, “I understand your anger and frustration over the way you have been treated in relation to your claim application”, and as such, I respect your view.

I won’t enter into any full blown argument with you over some of your comments, purely out of respect for the forum, its owners and the terms of use.
 
I guess there is only one thing you have stated that I agree with, “but if it had been you, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now”.

Spot on, I would not have aired my grievances and personal problems on a public forum, so you are absolutely correct.

Lefty

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Re: Small miners and fossickers - we need a voice.
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2016, 03:59:59 PM »
No, I don't think I missed anything Diesel. Quite simply, you fear the possibility of repercussions arising from publicly disagreeing with the powers that be. I understand your view, respect your right to that view and concede that there may be some possibility of some level of backlash, though I'm not sure to what extent it would be likely to occur.

No full-blown argument will occur between you and I, I'm sure we can keep it above that. This is as you have correctly identified, a public forum for the purpose of discussing all manner of issues related to lapidary, fossicking and gem mining so the discussion raised here in this thread certainly fits within the scope of that purpose I would think and I'm not the only person that feels it is important. If you feel that you would elect to be silent over this issue, that's your choice. Others may choose to be more vocal and they have that right as well.

It seems I misjudged you with my comment "but if it had been you, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now”. I would have thought that most people would have not just rolled over at such treatment but you have indicated that you would say nothing. So be it, that's up to you.

Anyway, you aren't the first person to express concern over possible repercussions if the little people were to stand up so this is helpful in showing us what any stumbling blocks might be to acquiring a more effective voice. In the case of small miners on the CQ field at least, fear of reprisals is clearly one and may well be justified in some cases.

But it's a sad fact of life that just sitting there minding your own business does not guarantee you will not be molested or ill-treated - nobody pulled the dog's tail here but it just snapped a bunch of people anyway.

Nobody is forcing you to be part of any discussion Diesel. If you don't like what see but don't feel like speaking out, then don't - simple.


diesel

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Re: Small miners and fossickers - we need a voice.
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2016, 05:35:24 PM »
You're a class act Lefty, done nothing but moan about the injustice of having your claim application rejected, stated that you have been offered a refund of your money and you're still moaning.

You have a very misguided and convoluted view of life here on the gemfields. You seem to believe that you have been denied rights - what rights? From what you have written so far, everything that has happened to you and others has been within the legislation and has nothing to do with a denial of rights. If you do have a case of your so called rights being denied, there is an avenue you can take called the right of appeal.

There are a lot of us living out here that have been here for quite some time and seen the moaners come and go. You are not the first and definitely won't be the last and when you are gone, guess what? We will still be here enjoying our no fuss layback lifestyle.

pc bowe

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Re: Small miners and fossickers - we need a voice.
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2016, 05:40:01 PM »
Good points bought up on both sides.
Strait up, I'm not from the sapphire fields so, local issues are local issues. However you guys have the dubious honor of being "RA 1" the denses cluster  of small miners  in QLD.
I've been following the issues of the day, predominantly through the "Miners newsletters"
printed by the various Sub branches of the QSMC and three things occur to me.
  • They've been lobbying hard on the topics of importance.
  • They've struck multiple brick walls.(Perhaps airing this on an open forum is the new way).
  • I am not a member.
So taking our old hands advice, of cleaning our own backyard. I am going to apply right now.
PS. The open Forum is the birth place of democracy.

Lefty

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Re: Small miners and fossickers - we need a voice.
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2016, 06:35:33 PM »
You're a class act Lefty, done nothing but moan about the injustice of having your claim application rejected, stated that you have been offered a refund of your money and you're still moaning.

You have a very misguided and convoluted view of life here on the gemfields. You seem to believe that you have been denied rights - what rights? From what you have written so far, everything that has happened to you and others has been within the legislation and has nothing to do with a denial of rights. If you do have a case of your so called rights being denied, there is an avenue you can take called the right of appeal.

There are a lot of us living out here that have been here for quite some time and seen the moaners come and go. You are not the first and definitely won't be the last and when you are gone, guess what? We will still be here enjoying our no fuss layback lifestyle.


I wonder if that's what the other people who suddenly got whacked on the head thought as well?

Anyway, luckily there are people with the testicular fortitude around who are lobbying on important matters on behalf of others - even those who might pour scorn on them. What was that story about the little red hen? We could stoop down into trading accusations of whiner versus gutless wonder but that would achieve little. As I've already said, it's very simple Diesel - don't comment on this thread if you don't like it. If you think you'll still be around when I'm long gone, then why waste your breath here? If you don't care about the issues I've raised then leave.

BTW, we've actually been going out around the field for around 40 years so not exactly newbies.

"PS. The open Forum is the birth place of democracy. "

Exactly right. And democracy does not exist without a voice.

Anyway, the QSMA are meeting with the DMNR in about a week to discuss this particular matter, more info will come to light then.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 06:37:18 PM by Lefty »

Gemster

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Re: Small miners and fossickers - we need a voice.
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2016, 06:41:39 PM »
It doesn't matter if Lefty gets his money back... Its the Bloody principle of What has happened.....
 Diesel, you sit there and be quiet and We will wait for the big stick to land on your turf and see what happens.. Bet I could hear you scream from here..... Haven't you ever heard of People Power... We do have the right to Vote and Protest and that my friend will never taken away from us.... I for one would like to see a Massive Protest on the streets of your town just to show the rest of Australia this massive unjust... That has and will have, massive repercussion right across Australia....
If WE can change Prime Ministers and Stop Dams being built then I guess We can take on the Government cant we.... as for airing on a forum, A BIG THANK-YOU Lefty for bringing this up for ALL OF US TO SEE.... Otherwise we would have never known... as some appear to want to keep this quiet.....


   Gemster..... beers
I swing a 12-pound hammer,smash gibbers by the ton
I used to think it convict work,but now i think it's FUN

Lefty

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Re: Small miners and fossickers - we need a voice.
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2016, 06:55:04 PM »
Thank you Gemster beers

I'm not really sure what Diesel is all that afraid of. He makes some valid points but so have we. One minute he's saying he's afraid of the repercussions of speaking out, next minute he's saying that he's safe as houses and those who would speak up are just whiners.

I keep trying to point out that it isn't just me, that a bunch of other people have been shafted badly but he keeps ignoring that and insisting it's all just about me having a whinge. I would really hope that it's fear that is behind his attitude, not just total and utter apathy.

Anyway, thanks guys, I'll keep info coming as it comes to hand. beers

Gemster

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Re: Small miners and fossickers - we need a voice.
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2016, 07:13:06 PM »
 beers Lefty... Make as much noise as you need to be heard.... Oh and keep a 'airing' your 'Moans' on your Forums... We ALL need to know what's happening out there.....


   Gemster...... beers
I swing a 12-pound hammer,smash gibbers by the ton
I used to think it convict work,but now i think it's FUN

diesel

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Re: Small miners and fossickers - we need a voice.
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2016, 07:38:44 AM »
.... I for one would like to see a Massive Protest on the streets of your town just to show the rest of Australia this massive unjust... That has and will have, massive repercussion right across Australia....
If WE can change Prime Ministers and Stop Dams being built then I guess We can take on the Government cant we....

Are you for real Gemster or on some weird mind altering substance?

Lefty

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Re: Small miners and fossickers - we need a voice.
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2016, 07:45:44 AM »
I think I'll wait for the outcome of the QSMA meeting. I can't get access to a landline during the opening hours of the DEHP or the QLD Herbarium and I don't have a good mobile plan so it could cost me about $50 just to get an answer. The QSMA should have gotten all the details by late next week.

Interestingly, the DEHP website states that they must answer questions posed to them through the correct channels - I've done that and I've yet to receive one. All indications are that the message sent successfully. Same with the Herbarium. Pretty sure by now that they are simply ignoring me.

I guess it's possible that they can't talk about it because of legal issues - some of those tenures that have been affected might be machinery leases who might be pushing for compensation. Don't know but we'll find out as time goes by.

 

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