Small miners and fossickers - we need a voice.

[Lefty]

.... I for one would like to see a Massive Protest on the streets of your town just to show the rest of Australia this massive unjust... That has and will have, massive repercussion right across Australia....
If WE can change Prime Ministers and Stop Dams being built then I guess We can take on the Government cant we....

Are you for real Gemster or on some weird mind altering substance?

.... I for one would like to see a Massive Protest on the streets of your town just to show the rest of Australia this massive unjust... That has and will have, massive repercussion right across Australia....
If WE can change Prime Ministers and Stop Dams being built then I guess We can take on the Government cant we....

Are you for real Gemster or on some weird mind altering substance?

You still here?

[diesel]

Still here Lefty.

Somebody has to contribute some sensible debate here - your mate seems to be off with the fairies somewhere.

[Gemster]

  We will be here a long time.... longer than you will be diesel.... 


    Gemster.....

[diesel]

Now be nice Gemster or I'll start to think you don't like me.

[diesel]

Hey Lefty, let’s be serious about this discussion.

You say that I am afraid of repercussions if the proverbial hits the fan. That is not the case and far from the truth.
 
You may or may not be aware that the majority of claim holders out here are retirees like me. We have had our share of drama throughout our lives and chose the gemfields lifestyle to most likely see out the remaining years. We share a common interest in gemstone mining, but beyond that, most of us enjoy fairly solitary lives free from interference from others and that includes government departments and agencies. Sure, there are times when we are less than happy with some issue thrown up by DMNR and others, but we have been able to handle these issues alone through a consultative process. It is not a matter of rolling over as you put it or doing absolutely nothing, it is just how a lot of us are – my problem, I will handle it without any help from the masses. You may not agree with this stance, but that’s the way it is. Most of us are happy to maintain the status quo – we won’t bother them if they don’t bother us.

I am a member of the QSMA and I believe that is the only voice we need here. When I mined opal in NSW back in late 70’s, I was a member of the Lightning Ridge Miners Association and that was also the only voice we required then and there. Victoria and WA both have established Miners Rights, so they don’t need change.

I had a talk with a few blokes down at the standpipe this morning and apart from being peeved about paying council rates for little in return, not one of them showed any interest in forming a national small miners & fossickers organisation – now why doesn’t that surprise me?

[Lefty]

Well I'm glad you agree that we need at least some measure of a voice. I'm just thinking a bit more broadly than only the CQ gemfields, that's all.

As I mentioned earlier, your description of many inhabitants of the field sums me up pretty much as well. I just tend to have a bit more of a pro-active streak in me, rather like the active members of the QSMA who are continually arguing for the interests of people like both you and I. Groups such as these carry out a substantial amount of advocacy work behind the scenes - with the beneficiaries often largely oblivious and taking what they have for granted. Believe me, I know all about that one - I was less worried about those who had chosen not to be active in this situation (I'm not referring to the current gemfields ERE here, something entirely unrelated) but more peeved at those who had mocked the efforts of the active ones....but then gladly held their hands out to receive the benefits. The story of the little red hen is pretty true to life - except that all the other animals get to eat the bread anyway.

Thing is Diesel - there is not really any such thing as status quo. Someone is always driving for change, be they sympathetic or antagonistic to you. That's a fact. The previous status quo was just jolted by people with the ability to wield organised power and who think a bush is more important than anything else already there. You were not affected but other people were, as will the future be.

I can understand that the future may be lesser concern to those whose days are advanced, they just want to spend the remainder of their days in peace but I'm sure you can understand that those who are likely to be around longer may have more cause for concern and feel more motivated to do something.

Anyway, no one is forcing you to be involved in anything. You do what makes you happy and I'll do what I think is right. No problems then?

[Gemster]

Never underestimate People Power... We stoped the QLD Government building a dam in the Mary Valley, we stoped Coal seam gas mining in areas in SE QLD and stoped them selling OUR assets and look at what People Power has done in Northern NSW.... No more 'old growth' logging and Coal Seam Gas mining and forced the NSW powers to be to change their minds on Fossicking at Wellingrove...

 The way I look at it 'We are all clowns in the circus of life' some want to watch and some want to be a ringleader.... im with the ringleader... Oh and im a very Passionate and Proud Union member as well..... So I guess Diesel, you Don't like me
 

   Gemster....

[Lefty]

I see Gemster understands my Little Red Hen analogy

Victoria and WA both have established Miners Rights, so they don’t need change.

I trust you realize that said rights did not just tumble from the sky along with the Ten Commandments?

Anyway, you are never going to agree with Gemster and I so any debate is pretty pointless from here. Don't trouble yourself with it, just enjoy your retirement

[diesel]

You could probably say that the sky was falling in and Gemster would nod his head and agree with you Lefty. It is plain to see that he is your faithfull follower.

Yes, I am fully conversant with the history of both the Vic and WA Miners Rights, I hold the WA lifetime Right and have been a holder of the limited time Vic Right. Thanks for the reference to the ten commandments, but totally wasted on an atheist like myself.

You are right, I will never agree with you and as far as Gemster goes, he is a source of amusement to me. When I need a laugh I will search for a Gemster post - he's good value and every forum should have somebody like him.

I would like to keep this exchange going, but I'm heading up the gulf fishing for a month or so. You blokes carry on with your crusade or rebellion or whatever you want to call it and if Gemster is going to hold one of his "massive" street marches, please wait until I get back. I would hate to miss it.

[Gemster]

I would definitely look out the window to check first before I agreed...

 Have fun fishing and don't forget to take some Bananas with you ...good for Snacks..

 Laugh away... I couldn't give a rats ... Enjoy your 'retirement' my friend.... Classic 


   Gemster.....


   

[drft_er]

I suppose everyone can have their 2 bobs worth
I have been a claim holder on the fields for 10 years.


I have been following this thread and feel that I must comment.
Lefty – firstly I understand that you have had a difficult time dealing with the current situation and the disappointment and frustration that goes along with it, Any person that has mining claims on the gemfields would agree that dealing with powers that be is challenging.
But
I have 2 questions and you do not need answer the first
1 did you accept the refund offered
 
2 Are you going to be pegging or buying another claim on the fields.
I believe that in the Qsma on the fields we have the best united voice that has been around for some time it is a pity that it took native title to bring to the forefront in the mining community.
 
They have access to the halls of power that I would not be able to get a as an individual.

I cede my right to the Qsma to try to negotiate and improve these conditions on my behalf.

[drft_er]

The comment that that I find hard to fathom is “I’m not sure what Diesel is afraid of”
Do you have an understanding of the requirements to hold and operate a mining claim under the current legislation? Work programs hours of work, safety requirements ect
If they wanted to stick to the current legislation and strictly enforce the letter of the law it would do a lot more damage to the fields than that caused by the minimal numbers affected by the introduction of the ERE areas. I have Looked at the maps.
It has the potential to cause more damage to the community as a whole.

[drft_er]

[size=78%]It’s the way of the world. We have become an I WANT society, sometimes we need to look outside our own blinkered view.[/size]
I support Diesel 110%

There are quite a few people from the fields on this forum and I have seen no comments posted.
[/size]If you have answered my second question yes, then I will be happy to continue this discussion over a beer one day,[size=78%]



I hate too see a great forum hijacked by political dicussion
Cheers




 

[Lefty]

did you accept the refund offered

Not yet, I'm still considering my options. I can apparently get my money back - though my dealings with the department lead me to suspect this is probably not such a simple process - but I can never get back my three years spent jumping through hoops. Legal and above board one day, then suddenly illegal the next. Note that this comment is tied to the next one.

Are you going to be pegging or buying another claim on the fields

What do you think you would do Garry? Given what just happened and after all this time, I don't yet have great confidence that if I were to do that, these somewhat arbitrary boundaries might not simply be amended in a few years time, possibly with the same result. Perhaps you might be next?

I believe that in the Qsma on the fields we have the best united voice that has been around for some time it is a pity that it took native title to bring to the forefront in the mining community.
 
They have access to the halls of power that I would not be able to get a as an individual.

I cede my right to the Qsma to try to negotiate and improve these conditions on my behalf.

I think there might be a little bit of confusion here. As far as I have seen, the QSMA do a fine job on the field - I have not suggested they be supplanted. I'm talking about broader issues, though obviously including this one.

Do you have an understanding of the requirements to hold and operate a mining claim under the current legislation? Work programs hours of work, safety requirements ect

Yes, I'm aware of all those things Garry. We have been around the traps out there for about 40 years, including holding small claims. I can understand that people hold concerns that anyone speaking out too loudly might cause them to come in wielding the big compliance stick. Though the ability to actually enforce everything to the letter would require a rather significant permanent boost to their existing resources. In my job, the letter of the legislation states that it is more or less illegal to do significant portions of what I must do for the job to be done - but if I didn't do it, there would be no point showing up for work. 20 years later, I'm still there. I think you'll find this goes for plenty of places.

This is where I can't work Diesel out - first he says he's worried about this issue, then he says he isn't.

It’s the way of the world. We have become an I WANT society, sometimes we need to look outside our own blinkered view

Versus an aggregation of "as long as I'm still ok, everyone else can go to hell" individuals. Thankfully, I think those who are really like this at heart are a minority.

There are quite a few people from the fields on this forum and I have seen no comments posted.

I'm just glad I've been able to start bringing it to people's attention, otherwise nobody here would know yet.

But for your interest, here's three people with claims on the field commenting on the matter, though on another forum. One of these people has taken the hit.

I'm glad you weren't affected Garry and I can fully understand the worry people have that a slew of regulations - including plenty that were very obviously drafted by people who know nothing about digging for sapphires in the CQ bush and who care even less - might be enforced to the letter. I just don't agree that silence is the best protection for everyone.

Cheers

[Lefty]

Yes, I am fully conversant with the history of both the Vic and WA Miners Rights, I hold the WA lifetime Right and have been a holder of the limited time Vic Right

And you think...........?

Thanks for the reference to the ten commandments, but totally wasted on an atheist like myself.

Well I'm not a church-goer myself, I just like metaphors, they can say a lot to those with eyes to look and ears to listen.

I would like to keep this exchange going, but I'm heading up the gulf fishing for a month or so.

Have fun! Just keep an eye out for those big snapping handbags, they are everywhere in the water up there.

Cheers