Small miners and fossickers - we need a voice.

[Lefty]

Here's a few comments, cross-posted...

I feel your pain mate! We just had a call telling us a claim we have had for a year is now not recognised due to the EPA. Funny how people can dig on the surface yet we can't underground. I need to find out more info. I suppose we are lucky our original claim is ok.

Hey Lefty, a good means of getting some high powered support, is to contact Central Highlands regional council. They rely on the rates revenue from the gemmies, and would be stunned to hear what is potentially happening.
Baz.

Hi lefty I have just emerged from the swamp and starting to look at life again so have just caught up with a few threads on forum.
When i had my claim at reward some years ago a certain farmer was doing his best to get rid of miners he was going to fence of the bottom road to reward and was told every time he put it up it would be cut down, I believe he was stopped as this was an escape route in case of fire etc.

At this time he illegally poisoned a large area of trees by aerial spraying on the Reward Road. Although he was taken to task nothing happened.
Under the environmental act this was a crime
This is here say but it was mentioned that his wife was a relation of some politician.
I am assuming this is the same ankle that is causing you problems.
Look for an investigate Journalist.
Keep the pressure up

Remember the Eureka Stockade miners verse land owners gentry and politicians all wanting the wealth of the miners but forcing restrictions and costs on them.
Sultana Hill would make a good rallying ground
Cheers

Follow the link for verification of authenticity. So as you can see, there are people on the field with such concerns.

[Lefty]

Now, to clarify something. There have been understandable concerns raised here about the possible consequences of "yanking the tail of the dog", in reference to the Department of Mines and Natural Resources who administrate the gemfields.

My understanding thus far is that this particular issue actually has very little to do with the DMNR. What is occurring is entirely by the design and at the behest of another government entity altogether - the Department of Environment and Heritage Protection. The DMNR has not created the ERE's, the legislation has merely been handed to them across departments and the mines office in Emerald is in the unfortunate position of having it now within their role to inform a number of people that somebody else's legislation has rendered their tenures invalid, and to ensure that no pegging of claims occurs in these new restricted areas in the future. This is what I have been led to believe by the mines office in Emerald.

Thus, any "argument" with the government department would not be had with the DMNR but with the DEHP. The DEHP do not administer/enforce small mining and fossicking legislation, that's not their job.

The DEHP apparently believe that their environmental no-go zone legislation overrides and supplants small mining legislation within a designated small mining and fossicking area. Whether that turns out to be the case will depend upon how much opposition there is. No opposition - no problems, the precedent is set.

[Lefty]

As for myself, I'll need to get back out and have a closer look but I don't recall seeing any threatened tree species that I'm aware of growing on my applications. In fast, one of them has hardly any trees. But as far as the DEHP are concerned, I'm some distance inside some kind of threatened forest or something such. My argument to them that it is not true and that if they would only come out here and have an actual look on the ground themselves seems to be falling on deaf ears and the Emerald mines office - who have been quite helpful by the way - told me that they believe that the DEHP would want me to shell out some significant sum to engage the services of a professional botanist before they would even consider my argument.

If the fact that they seem able to render applications and existing tenures null and void on the basis of probably inaccurate information as to where plants do and do not grow does not worry you blokes that have not been affected, then I'm not sure what will.

Again, I'd need to get back out and have a closer look but I seem to recall a decent-sized stand of what I think is probably the plant in question growing fairly close to the community of claims at the Washpool. At this point I'd be thinking there's no reason they can't move or expand the ERE boundaries whenever the feel justified.

[Lefty]

I really should change the title of that thread I posted in the other place - at the time I didn't know that wasn't by done by them, just pushed through them.

[diesel]

This is where I can't work Diesel out - first he says he's worried about this issue, then he says he isn't.

Hmmm, when I first read that I thought WTF, I don't recall saying I was worried about something and then saying that I wasn't. I've gone back over my posts and I can't find it anywhere.

Any chance you can point me in the direction of where I said these things Lefty.

No, don't waste your time - we both know it didn't happen.

[diesel]

My initial response to this thread was that it is an interesting topic and although I do not agree that we need a “new voice”, I thought that it is an issue that was worthy of discussion. It is plain to see that the thread is just another platform for Lefty to air his displeasure about the way he has been treated or should I say perceived to have been treated. He has another thread going regarding the same displeasure and we now even have a link to another forum with yet again, the same thing. You made a couple of comments on that forum that are really bordering on the ridiculous.

“I've been in touch with the Queensland Sapphire Miners Association, we're still looking into it further. They surely can't implement this thing to the full extent or there would be another Eureka Stockade”

Are you really suggesting that if you don’t get your own way, you and your band of “followers’ erect a stockade and the Southern Cross flag and take up arms against the government?  Hmmm?

“This sounds like an organised attempt to stamp out small-scale mining!”

To even suggest that your treatment is the start of some diabolical plot by the government to stamp out small scale mining takes the cake.

Methinks you need to get a grip on reality Lefty and then maybe your whole saga would be a bit more believable.

[Lefty]

I thought you'd gone fishing

[diesel]

Sometimes the best laid plans come unstuck Lefty - all packed ready to go and my mate phones to say he has been called back to work for a couple of weeks. No big deal, always another time.

[Lefty]

Are you really suggesting that if you don’t get your own way, you and your band of “followers’ erect a stockade and the Southern Cross flag and take up arms against the government?  Hmmm?

Take a chill pill and look at the date of the post you're referring to - it was made just after the initial communique from the department. Since then, further information has come to light showing that the new no-go zones miss most tenures. But the actual extent of them was uncertain at the time - all we knew was that no-mining zones had suddenly been implemented across the gemfields.

If they had in fact wiped out a significant portion of tenures, I really don't think the fact that things are often not done to the letter of the (sometimes impractical) legislation would have prevented an angry collective outburst. Perhaps you would have crawled into your hole and hoped really hard for it to all just go away but I'd be very surprised if everybody else just rolled over.

To even suggest that your treatment is the start of some diabolical plot by the government to stamp out small scale mining takes the cake.

As above. Also, if you have never had any interest in anything outside your own hole then I guess it's not surprising that you would posses a pretty limited understanding of how things actually work more broadly.

Methinks you need to get a grip on reality Lefty and then maybe your whole saga would be a bit more believable.

I'll assume that you nonetheless can't be so blind and deaf as to actually be implying that I'm making all this up?

All things considered - if you don't care and aren't concerned, why do you keep coming back here with angry-sounding comments? You seem to be using this thread as a platform to voice your displeasure that others don't think the way you do.

It's hard to say this without sounding offensive Diesel but I feel that while I have been one of the first to bring to people's attention something that is very obviously an important issue and to keep passing information as it comes to hand, you on the other hand have done almost nothing but bleat incessantly about how you think that anyone concerned about these and other broader issues is an idiot. Thank you for pointing out that many people on the field are worried about the big compliance stick - but since then you've done little but spew bile.

Anyway, I'll keep passing on information as it comes to hand.

Cheers

[MakkyBrown]

I thought you'd gone fishing

Maybe the fishings better here. 

[diesel]

You just don’t seem to get it Lefty, too wrapped up in your own problem to even remotely consider the damage that your outlandish remarks could have out here.

Consider this, a bloke down the track from me has decided to put his claim on the market and a mildly rich patch of dirt it is. He has put a realistic figure on his asking price and optimistically hopes to lure a potential buyer. As is the way of the world these days, most people will perform due diligence checks before parting with their hard earned cash and part of that investigative process is seeking information on the internet.
 
Lo and behold, said potential buyers come across completely false and misleading information relating to the future of small scale mining in Qld and being oblivious to the fact that the information is total rubbish, they decide against joining our mining community. A few years back, it was a seller’s market out here. There was a lot of money about and claims sold easily, but not so easily now. Those who want to sell and move on for whatever reason are relying on potential buyers from interstate who want a “tree change”. Your remarks do not help to attract potential buyers, in fact they do the complete opposite.

Whilst ever you make these false statements in relation to the future of small scale mining in Qld, I will oppose you. I have that right as someone who has spent the past quarter of a century promoting the positive aspects of the CQ Gemfields.

[Gemster]

  Lefty.. Keep up the Good work Keeping us informed.... Don't worry about the Moaners out there... I think by the sounds of it he isn't a miner anyhow... just a retiree living in the field....not free but easy ....  and  Who would want to buy into a lease knowing that it could be taken from you at any time in the Future... 


   Gemster....

[Aussie Sapphire]

I would remind ALL members to please consider their words when posting and try to keep things civil and constructive.


In my opinion, this thread is veering dangerously into personal attack and is just not what ALF is here for.


I understand these issues generate strong opinion but this is getting out of hand.  You know who you are - I am respectfully asking all of you to tone it down.

Thank you
Leah (ADMIN)

[Lefty]

Apologies Leah - I really didn't expect this thread to head in the direction that it did

Is it ok if it stays open just as a conduit for information? I really do feel that this and related issues are very important to us all, although everyone is entitled to take their own views.

IMO, the biggest threat is the level of uncertainty caused by the likes of what has just occurred. The sellers market has fallen away due to the uncertainty over Native Title - believe me, I'm one of those who ended up being caught up in it - and just as that looks to have a possible time horizon for settlement, we now have this new issue - if I buy a claim (or peg one) will these suddenly materialized no-go zones be extended in the future and nullify existing tenures - as they have just done already?

Anyway, I will go with whatever the site administrators/owners decide.

Hopefully some new information will emerge late this week or early next week following the QSMA meeting with the DMNR over this new issue.

Cheers all.

[Aussie Sapphire]

Anyway, I will go with whatever the site administrators/owners decide.

No worries - just keep it friendly.

And I would suggest generally assisting those organisations who are already out there arguing for your interests.  If NAPFA have been negotiating on these issues on behalf of fossickers/prospectors, then it is probably more effective to join up with them, work to steer/adust the agenda if necessary and add your voice to theirs rather than going out and trying to start again from scratch.  Likewise with the QSMA - if they already are negotiating in that space, then help them.

It seems to me that there are already organisations out there working on these issues - if their voice is not loud enough, then add yours and make it louder.  Governments dont tend to communicate with individuals very well (a single voice is easily ignored) so if there is already an organisation that they are talking to that is supposed to represent your interests, then make sure they do so effectively.  And of course, this will be best done by constructive and respectful communication all round.

This is not to say we cannot lobby individually and the National Parks community consultation is a good example where you need as much feedback from as many people as possible.  But also make sure your lobby groups are as effective as they can be which means they need our support as well. 

Cheers
Leah