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Author Topic: Jarvi/Facetron Owners-please take note  (Read 776 times)

MakkyBrown

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Re: Jarvi/Facetron Owners-please take note
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2022, 07:08:23 PM »
Could go a set of 4 72, 80, 84, 120
Yeah, I saw that. Tempting..
Might be the last chance to get them or you could look to 3d but nicer having the originals.

MakkyBrown

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Re: Jarvi/Facetron Owners-please take note
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2022, 11:23:50 PM »
Could go a set of 4 72, 80, 84, 120
Yeah, I saw that. Tempting..
Might be the last chance to get them or you could look to 3d but nicer having the originals.
If you already have one of the 4 I listed, getting a spare 96 is not a bad idea.

RoughCreations

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Re: Jarvi/Facetron Owners-please take note
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2022, 10:28:00 AM »
Seems faceting machine manufacturing is generally in serious decline. I guess the Baby-boomers that originally founded the manufacturing businesses are nearing, or have already reached the stage where retirement beckons. Some sell-on their blueprints, but how many of these faceting machine brands will emerge from the ashes with new manufacturing businesses once again producing them - is there there really a sufficient margin and possible output to make the venture viable?

In more recent times: Gemmasta, Facetron, Hall XTRA Cairns (still in production, long wait, and the manufacturing business is currently for sale) - I'm sure there are more, please add to the list.

RC
Rough Creations - Beauty from rough beginnings

Ghost

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Re: Jarvi/Facetron Owners-please take note
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2022, 08:15:21 AM »
Take-offs of Shaw-Raytech, and Facetron are available from Sri Lanka and Vietnam. 
India may have a copy of Ultra-tech.
And, of course, China and India have heaps of cheap copies of a very old and and fairly poor, Lee design.
And so the world goes round and gets smaller and poorer.
Justin K Prim, located in Sri Lanka, has an excellent list of manufacturers, and some tests, reviews, of various machines.
Aside from the Designers / Manufacturers getting older and retiring, perhaps not so many people are entering the hobby these days.
How is your club fairing on attracting new members?
Ghost.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2022, 08:42:22 AM by Ghost »

Ghost

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Re: Jarvi/Facetron Owners-please take note
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2022, 10:44:01 AM »
http://www.justinusprimitive.com/Catalog-MuseumofFacetingTechnology-Spring2021

The above web site is well worth a visit by anyone interested in the history of faceting.

Regards,
Ghost

RoughCreations

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Re: Jarvi/Facetron Owners-please take note
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2022, 03:24:23 PM »
Take-offs of Shaw-Raytech, and Facetron are available from Sri Lanka and Vietnam. 
India may have a copy of Ultra-tech.
And, of course, China and India have heaps of cheap copies of a very old and and fairly poor, Lee design.
And so the world goes round and gets smaller and poorer.
Justin K Prim, located in Sri Lanka, has an excellent list of manufacturers, and some tests, reviews, of various machines.
Aside from the Designers / Manufacturers getting older and retiring, perhaps not so many people are entering the hobby these days.
How is your club fairing on attracting new members?
Ghost.

Thanks for that link, a great document to save to my collection. There does seem to be a healthy lapidary manufacturing industry at present in Asia. I guess my original comment should have read manufacturing of faceting equipment in western countries is in serious decline.
The Vietnamese Vesta VMF2 machine pictured in the photos in the linked document is, at the very least, strongly influenced by the Facetron..

My club has a core of long-term, mostly older retired members that attend regularly. There seems to be a lot of younger members that come for a period, then after a while they would stop attending and you would never see them again, so the retention of the younger ones seems to be more the issue at our local club. The club has no faceting equipment, so persons interested in this segment of lapidary would never join in the first place I guess.
There does seem to be a resurgence lately in people approaching clubs for the fossicking element, with no great interest in lapidary.

RC
Rough Creations - Beauty from rough beginnings

Ghost

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Re: Jarvi/Facetron Owners-please take note
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2022, 08:47:12 PM »
Hi RoughCreations.
When we started a faceting group at Victor Harbor, we made our own machines available to anyone interested in using them at the workshops.    Thus we maintained beginners interest until either they or the group could acquire a machine.
Club or private machine hire fees went towards buying club machines.   First club machines were sometimes partly financed by loans from some group members.   Machines bought by the 'Group' were often on-sold to the beginner who learnt on it and the proceeds re-invested in another machine.   Thus the group grew in both numbers and group machines.   We believe that we were responsible for 15 or more machines moving into the Victor Harbor area.    Although some later moved out of the area.
Yes.   Some members leave after a while.    Either after buying their own machine, or losing interest.
There seems to be very little available at the moment on the secondhand market.   Just one Tom Thumb on Gumtree.   Very quiet indeed.
Regards Ghost




MakkyBrown

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Re: Jarvi/Facetron Owners-please take note
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2022, 08:52:38 AM »
Take-offs of Shaw-Raytech, and Facetron are available from Sri Lanka and Vietnam. 
India may have a copy of Ultra-tech.
And, of course, China and India have heaps of cheap copies of a very old and and fairly poor, Lee design.
And so the world goes round and gets smaller and poorer.
Justin K Prim, located in Sri Lanka, has an excellent list of manufacturers, and some tests, reviews, of various machines.
Aside from the Designers / Manufacturers getting older and retiring, perhaps not so many people are entering the hobby these days.
How is your club fairing on attracting new members?
Ghost.

Thanks for that link, a great document to save to my collection. There does seem to be a healthy lapidary manufacturing industry at present in Asia. I guess my original comment should have read manufacturing of faceting equipment in western countries is in serious decline.
The Vietnamese Vesta VMF2 machine pictured in the photos in the linked document is, at the very least, strongly influenced by the Facetron..

My club has a core of long-term, mostly older retired members that attend regularly. There seems to be a lot of younger members that come for a period, then after a while they would stop attending and you would never see them again, so the retention of the younger ones seems to be more the issue at our local club. The club has no faceting equipment, so persons interested in this segment of lapidary would never join in the first place I guess.
There does seem to be a resurgence lately in people approaching clubs for the fossicking element, with no great interest in lapidary.

RC
I really don't blame the young one leaving when the club doesn't manage/change diamond wheels and sanding belt on a frequent enough basis. I remember taking hours just to shape one stone. So I don't use the club gear and not everyone is like myself and have a workshop to build there own machines.MB

RoughCreations

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Re: Jarvi/Facetron Owners-please take note
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2022, 12:27:17 PM »
Hi RoughCreations.
When we started a faceting group at Victor Harbor, we made our own machines available to anyone interested in using them at the workshops.    Thus we maintained beginners interest until either they or the group could acquire a machine.
Club or private machine hire fees went towards buying club machines.   First club machines were sometimes partly financed by loans from some group members.   Machines bought by the 'Group' were often on-sold to the beginner who learnt on it and the proceeds re-invested in another machine.   Thus the group grew in both numbers and group machines.   We believe that we were responsible for 15 or more machines moving into the Victor Harbor area.    Although some later moved out of the area.
Yes.   Some members leave after a while.    Either after buying their own machine, or losing interest.
There seems to be very little available at the moment on the secondhand market.   Just one Tom Thumb on Gumtree.   Very quiet indeed.
Regards Ghost

Sounds like a well thought-out approach to encourage new facetors. I wonder if non-mast type faceting machines such as the Sterling from Sri Lanka would work well for the beginner facetor in the type of workshop environment you mention. Justin K Prim is a fan of the Sterling (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdSKy3TfJSo). Less chance of bad damage to machines, you could have multiple handpieces - one for each beginner, and they don't cost the earth. I suspect a beginner could focus on looking at the gem more frequently and easily, and gaining a quicker understanding of the basics of the craft.

On a tangent, I wonder how the Sterling manufacturing company is doing in their current economic/political climate? Things are pretty dire in Sri Lanka at the moment.

While on the topic of hand-piece style faceting machines, the Swiss have used this style as precision machines for some time, I was recently sent the link below by a European forum member that is machining parts for these machines:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJA1rusGjS4

RC
Rough Creations - Beauty from rough beginnings

mehoose

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Re: Jarvi/Facetron Owners-please take note
« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2022, 12:47:59 PM »
@Makky

Yes, and type of equipment.We were taught shaping to final polish on the wheels only. So through the diamond hard wheels, then over to the Nova soft backs. Final polish was achieved on a gloriously worn in 14000 until someone tried to make a cab like the shapes we were doing and then they gouged it. New wheel of course took forever to break in. 
I think you guys in Hob still use a flat felt for final polish yes? Or have you changed now?That was one reason one young un didn't return, the equipment, but there was also the high level studies and shift work that also made it hard to return...plus all the other things like getting married, getting a house, finding hours to actually see the partner who's also on shift work. You know, life stuff.  ;)
 A 'belt' would've been a turn off too. that lip/gap is very real and on some shaped stones would be cause for concern, grabbing it and flinging it across the room. Our fingers were/are our dops and we felt the stones while shaping..if that makes sense? Getting sidetracked... Maybe time to approach the council for funding to upgrade equipment down there?
(That's what they did in Dev. Massive input financially for new equipment and since then they seem to have gone 'select' and losing/lost the club ideals but that's a whole different story and one that's just been mentioned in passing. Last I'd heard they've even broken away from AFLACA.)

Speaking of new equipment, I was floating around a couple of sites to see what's available these days and came across a Nova Cerium wheel!  :o Anyone used one?This sounds very positive for how we(my family) do the final polish.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2022, 12:50:27 PM by mehoose »
Keep em comin!!!

MakkyBrown

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Re: Jarvi/Facetron Owners-please take note
« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2022, 05:07:41 PM »
@mehoose. Only use Nova wheels on the first and/or second wheels like 140/280. Then use chinese soft wheels for the rest. The chinese wheels are a lot softer and have a thinner layer of diamond but never where out on the really fine grits.

mehoose

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Re: Jarvi/Facetron Owners-please take note
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2022, 07:57:23 PM »
 :o Really??? Gosh, I'd heard the Chinese wheels were um... not up to scratch... compared to the 'name' brands.
Keep em comin!!!

Bucket

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Re: Jarvi/Facetron Owners-please take note
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2022, 08:10:18 PM »
You're correct about Dev Mehoose, they did leave TLMA and thus AFLACA. We're due to update some equipment that's been in use since before I joined our club. We still use felt and leather pads for polishing, but I don't mind that. I wouldn't mind some fine diamond as an alternative. Our saws are also on the list, particularly our trim saw. Council is probably where we'll start for funding but we are now saving like mad to work towards it.
Common sense isn't exactly common

Ghost

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Re: Jarvi/Facetron Owners-please take note
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2022, 08:54:43 PM »
RC.
Seperate hand-pieces would work for beginners provided they turned up on different days, otherwise it would be fight as to who used the lap.
One of the machines I picked up fairly cheaply was a strange Imahashi.   Instead of the hand piece working off a table, it was mounted on a mast by magnets.   So inspection was still easy and frequent.   It only had a 32 index which is why the previous owner sold it so cheap, no diagrams available!   I recalculated (simple arithmetic) some suitable diagrams and compiled a file of over 30 designs for the 32 index.   I cut three stones on it, including a Portuguese Cut, before introducing it to the club.   Partly to show what it could do, and partly to learn how to use it.   Can't teach if you can't use it yourself!   It was on-sold to the beginner who learnt faceting on it.   He has a VJ now.
In addition to his list of manufacturers, did you have a look at Justin Prim's museum catalogue.   An Amazing collection covering about 600 years of faceting.
As an ex Hobart Boy I like hearing news from Tasmania.   Joined the club in Hobart when I was 12, but I'm not telling you how long ago that was!
Ghost.

mehoose

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Re: Jarvi/Facetron Owners-please take note
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2022, 08:57:27 PM »
Hey @Bucket and@ Makky. Here ye go. They've just pulled yet another grant for themselves.They sure know how to work the system. Pretty sure one lot years back was for a number of facet machines and cabbers. yep, looking at the images it was at least 4 cab stations(8 wheels) and 4 Halls xtra's and now I think you have to pay to learn faceting..unless that's changed. It used to be part and parcel of being in the club..not an 'exclusive' thing.So, c'mon... how about some funding from the Council?
Keep em comin!!!

 

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