Aussie Lapidary Forum
Fossicking and Rockhounding => Fossicking Locations => Topic started by: Lefty on April 21, 2016, 06:19:55 AM
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As suggested by PC Bowe, here is a thread to discuss the continual threat to the viability of small scale mining (generally precious stone mining and including the activity of prospecting) and to the rights of recreational fossickers.
I don't have time to write a long intro but it seems clear to me that we desperately need representation to those who make policy for without it, our existence is not even a consideration when decisions that could affect us are made. Other groups with competing interests in the same lands all have voices in the halls of policy making but we have none. We therefore cannot realistically expect too many outcomes that are positive for us. It is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease, regardless of how badly the other wheels might also need it.
I think we need a united body to argue for the rights of small miners and fossickers. Representitives of the Sapphire Miners Association (I believe there is a body in both QLD and NSW) and the opal miners associations could unite with reps from the nations lapidary and fossicking clubs to form a lobby group of some sort.
Ok, I have go and I'm just throwing out a few ideas here, hopefully that gets the ball rolling. If we don't take a united stand, we will end up being squished out of existence.
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Mods/Admin, could we get this thread stickied please?
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I
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A glitch in that last post.
It is an interesting topic Lefty and as much as I understand your anger and frustration over the way you have been treated in relation to your claim application, I do not share your view on the future of small scale mining here on the Central Qld gemfields or anywhere in Qld. I cannot comment about the situation in other states due to it being a different jurisdiction.
During the past 25 years here on the CQ gemfields I have witnessed such blatant disregard for legislation by a lot of claim holders that I have formed the opinion that if the DMNR decided to come in and wield a big stick to enforce the legislation (that we all agreed to in our claim applications), then a huge number of claim holders would be served with notices to quit. As it is, DMNR are very lenient in the way that the legislation is administered and enforced and you don’t have to look far to see evidence of that.
Just in my immediate area there are 7 claims that are occupied by the claim holders and they have not turned a shovel full of dirt in the past 4 to 5 years. Look around the fields and there are many, many more the same and they get away with it because DMNR are prepared to turn a blind eye to most of the minor non compliance issues and some of the more serious issues go under the radar.
If you believe that we should be getting a better deal from both state and local government then you have got to make sure that things are “squeaky clean” on our side of the fence before the battle lines are drawn up.
In the unlikely event that the QSMA united with other mining groups to take on state government, do you honestly believe that there would not be some sort of retaliation by the relevant authorities, mainly in the form of legislation enforcement for all non compliance issues.
As to the rights of recreational fossickers, there is also concern that not all of them do the right thing in regards to compliance. You only need to visit Graves Hill during the tourist season to observe how many are fossicking outside of the designated area. Both Graves Hill & Big Bessie attract the same fossickers back each year and nobody can convince me that they all have a currents fossickers license or have paid for a camping permit.
It is really a case of be careful what you wish for Lefty, because it could go full circle and come back to bite. I, along with a lot of others here rely on the annual influx of tourists to supplement my income through the Sunday Sapphire markets and painting the wrong image of the gemfields could definitely be detrimental to what a lot of us believe to be an idyllic lifestyle.
Yank a dog by the tail and sooner or later it will turn around and bite.
I’ve had my rant – I feel better now.
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I think Diesel's post exemplifies the problems that we small mining and prospecting types have - many of us are very individualistic (some of us even a little reclusive) by nature and I am no exception. I choose to do a job that allows me to work largely as my own boss with relatively minimal contact with others in the workplace. Every supervisor I have had in 20 years has commented on how lonely the job must be, but I don't see it that way. The small amount of interaction I have with co-workers is all that I want and I like it that way. I choose to live out of town in a quiet spot, even though you have better access to a lot more things living in town. I wouldn't like my quiet lifestyle intruded upon either. Individualistic types are often not the "stand together" type.
But I'm going to get straight to the point Diesel. A bunch of people have just borne the brunt of a pretty unjust act and some of them are probably people just like you. This time it wasn't you - but if it had been you, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. Details remain sketchy but it wasn't just me and my application, it was at least a dozen active tenures I'm told and some of these are likely permanent residents - people like you. I'm quite sure they didn't want their peaceful lifestyle disturbed either but it slammed down on them like a bolt from the blue - and I would say it's not in spite of the fact that nobody stood up but because of it.
I understand your concerns about how being vocal about rights may end up drawing attention to disregard for small mining and fossicking laws and the possibility of a big compliance stick being wielded. What I don't understand is why anyone would think that rights that currently exist are somehow "God-given" and will exist forever as long as we sit quietly and make no noise.
There are others with their own interests in the same lands who have no fear of any repercussions, who have hold of policy-makers ears and who will continue to endlessly press for legislation that suits their own agenda but which impinges upon people like us. And they will continue to succeed so long as none of us say anything. If you doubt what I'm saying then you must have missed what just happened.
Your concerns are valid but I must disagree that the best course of action is to sit mute, cringe each time we see the big hammer falling and hope that it misses us. I would have said "and hits someone else instead" but I'm sure you wouldn't wish that on anyone - but that is exactly what has just happened it will continue to happen.
BTW - if you aren't breaking any mining laws...what would you have to fear yourself?
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G’day Lefty,
You seem to have missed something that I stated in my last post, “I understand your anger and frustration over the way you have been treated in relation to your claim application”, and as such, I respect your view.
I won’t enter into any full blown argument with you over some of your comments, purely out of respect for the forum, its owners and the terms of use.
I guess there is only one thing you have stated that I agree with, “but if it had been you, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now”.
Spot on, I would not have aired my grievances and personal problems on a public forum, so you are absolutely correct.
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No, I don't think I missed anything Diesel. Quite simply, you fear the possibility of repercussions arising from publicly disagreeing with the powers that be. I understand your view, respect your right to that view and concede that there may be some possibility of some level of backlash, though I'm not sure to what extent it would be likely to occur.
No full-blown argument will occur between you and I, I'm sure we can keep it above that. This is as you have correctly identified, a public forum for the purpose of discussing all manner of issues related to lapidary, fossicking and gem mining so the discussion raised here in this thread certainly fits within the scope of that purpose I would think and I'm not the only person that feels it is important. If you feel that you would elect to be silent over this issue, that's your choice. Others may choose to be more vocal and they have that right as well.
It seems I misjudged you with my comment "but if it had been you, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now”. I would have thought that most people would have not just rolled over at such treatment but you have indicated that you would say nothing. So be it, that's up to you.
Anyway, you aren't the first person to express concern over possible repercussions if the little people were to stand up so this is helpful in showing us what any stumbling blocks might be to acquiring a more effective voice. In the case of small miners on the CQ field at least, fear of reprisals is clearly one and may well be justified in some cases.
But it's a sad fact of life that just sitting there minding your own business does not guarantee you will not be molested or ill-treated - nobody pulled the dog's tail here but it just snapped a bunch of people anyway.
Nobody is forcing you to be part of any discussion Diesel. If you don't like what see but don't feel like speaking out, then don't - simple.
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You're a class act Lefty, done nothing but moan about the injustice of having your claim application rejected, stated that you have been offered a refund of your money and you're still moaning.
You have a very misguided and convoluted view of life here on the gemfields. You seem to believe that you have been denied rights - what rights? From what you have written so far, everything that has happened to you and others has been within the legislation and has nothing to do with a denial of rights. If you do have a case of your so called rights being denied, there is an avenue you can take called the right of appeal.
There are a lot of us living out here that have been here for quite some time and seen the moaners come and go. You are not the first and definitely won't be the last and when you are gone, guess what? We will still be here enjoying our no fuss layback lifestyle.
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Good points bought up on both sides.
Strait up, I'm not from the sapphire fields so, local issues are local issues. However you guys have the dubious honor of being "RA 1" the denses cluster of small miners in QLD.
I've been following the issues of the day, predominantly through the "Miners newsletters"
printed by the various Sub branches of the QSMC and three things occur to me.
- They've been lobbying hard on the topics of importance.
- They've struck multiple brick walls.(Perhaps airing this on an open forum is the new way).
- I am not a member.
So taking our old hands advice, of cleaning our own backyard. I am going to apply right now.
PS. The open Forum is the birth place of democracy.
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You're a class act Lefty, done nothing but moan about the injustice of having your claim application rejected, stated that you have been offered a refund of your money and you're still moaning.
You have a very misguided and convoluted view of life here on the gemfields. You seem to believe that you have been denied rights - what rights? From what you have written so far, everything that has happened to you and others has been within the legislation and has nothing to do with a denial of rights. If you do have a case of your so called rights being denied, there is an avenue you can take called the right of appeal.
There are a lot of us living out here that have been here for quite some time and seen the moaners come and go. You are not the first and definitely won't be the last and when you are gone, guess what? We will still be here enjoying our no fuss layback lifestyle.
I wonder if that's what the other people who suddenly got whacked on the head thought as well?
Anyway, luckily there are people with the testicular fortitude around who are lobbying on important matters on behalf of others - even those who might pour scorn on them. What was that story about the little red hen? We could stoop down into trading accusations of whiner versus gutless wonder but that would achieve little. As I've already said, it's very simple Diesel - don't comment on this thread if you don't like it. If you think you'll still be around when I'm long gone, then why waste your breath here? If you don't care about the issues I've raised then leave.
BTW, we've actually been going out around the field for around 40 years so not exactly newbies.
"PS. The open Forum is the birth place of democracy. "
Exactly right. And democracy does not exist without a voice.
Anyway, the QSMA are meeting with the DMNR in about a week to discuss this particular matter, more info will come to light then.
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It doesn't matter if Lefty gets his money back... Its the Bloody principle of What has happened.....
Diesel, you sit there and be quiet and We will wait for the big stick to land on your turf and see what happens.. Bet I could hear you scream from here..... Haven't you ever heard of People Power... We do have the right to Vote and Protest and that my friend will never taken away from us.... I for one would like to see a Massive Protest on the streets of your town just to show the rest of Australia this massive unjust... That has and will have, massive repercussion right across Australia....
If WE can change Prime Ministers and Stop Dams being built then I guess We can take on the Government cant we.... as for airing on a forum, A BIG THANK-YOU Lefty for bringing this up for ALL OF US TO SEE.... Otherwise we would have never known... as some appear to want to keep this quiet.....
Gemster..... beers
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Thank you Gemster beers
I'm not really sure what Diesel is all that afraid of. He makes some valid points but so have we. One minute he's saying he's afraid of the repercussions of speaking out, next minute he's saying that he's safe as houses and those who would speak up are just whiners.
I keep trying to point out that it isn't just me, that a bunch of other people have been shafted badly but he keeps ignoring that and insisting it's all just about me having a whinge. I would really hope that it's fear that is behind his attitude, not just total and utter apathy.
Anyway, thanks guys, I'll keep info coming as it comes to hand. beers
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beers Lefty... Make as much noise as you need to be heard.... Oh and keep a 'airing' your 'Moans' on your Forums... We ALL need to know what's happening out there.....
Gemster...... beers
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.... I for one would like to see a Massive Protest on the streets of your town just to show the rest of Australia this massive unjust... That has and will have, massive repercussion right across Australia....
If WE can change Prime Ministers and Stop Dams being built then I guess We can take on the Government cant we....
Are you for real Gemster or on some weird mind altering substance?
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I think I'll wait for the outcome of the QSMA meeting. I can't get access to a landline during the opening hours of the DEHP or the QLD Herbarium and I don't have a good mobile plan so it could cost me about $50 just to get an answer. The QSMA should have gotten all the details by late next week.
Interestingly, the DEHP website states that they must answer questions posed to them through the correct channels - I've done that and I've yet to receive one. All indications are that the message sent successfully. Same with the Herbarium. Pretty sure by now that they are simply ignoring me.
I guess it's possible that they can't talk about it because of legal issues - some of those tenures that have been affected might be machinery leases who might be pushing for compensation. Don't know but we'll find out as time goes by.
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.... I for one would like to see a Massive Protest on the streets of your town just to show the rest of Australia this massive unjust... That has and will have, massive repercussion right across Australia....
If WE can change Prime Ministers and Stop Dams being built then I guess We can take on the Government cant we....
Are you for real Gemster or on some weird mind altering substance?
.... I for one would like to see a Massive Protest on the streets of your town just to show the rest of Australia this massive unjust... That has and will have, massive repercussion right across Australia....
If WE can change Prime Ministers and Stop Dams being built then I guess We can take on the Government cant we....
Are you for real Gemster or on some weird mind altering substance?
You still here?
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Still here Lefty.
Somebody has to contribute some sensible debate here - your mate seems to be off with the fairies somewhere.
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;D We will be here a long time.... longer than you will be diesel.... ;D
Gemster..... beers
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Now be nice Gemster or I'll start to think you don't like me.
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Hey Lefty, let’s be serious about this discussion.
You say that I am afraid of repercussions if the proverbial hits the fan. That is not the case and far from the truth.
You may or may not be aware that the majority of claim holders out here are retirees like me. We have had our share of drama throughout our lives and chose the gemfields lifestyle to most likely see out the remaining years. We share a common interest in gemstone mining, but beyond that, most of us enjoy fairly solitary lives free from interference from others and that includes government departments and agencies. Sure, there are times when we are less than happy with some issue thrown up by DMNR and others, but we have been able to handle these issues alone through a consultative process. It is not a matter of rolling over as you put it or doing absolutely nothing, it is just how a lot of us are – my problem, I will handle it without any help from the masses. You may not agree with this stance, but that’s the way it is. Most of us are happy to maintain the status quo – we won’t bother them if they don’t bother us.
I am a member of the QSMA and I believe that is the only voice we need here. When I mined opal in NSW back in late 70’s, I was a member of the Lightning Ridge Miners Association and that was also the only voice we required then and there. Victoria and WA both have established Miners Rights, so they don’t need change.
I had a talk with a few blokes down at the standpipe this morning and apart from being peeved about paying council rates for little in return, not one of them showed any interest in forming a national small miners & fossickers organisation – now why doesn’t that surprise me?
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Well I'm glad you agree that we need at least some measure of a voice. I'm just thinking a bit more broadly than only the CQ gemfields, that's all.
As I mentioned earlier, your description of many inhabitants of the field sums me up pretty much as well. I just tend to have a bit more of a pro-active streak in me, rather like the active members of the QSMA who are continually arguing for the interests of people like both you and I. Groups such as these carry out a substantial amount of advocacy work behind the scenes - with the beneficiaries often largely oblivious and taking what they have for granted. Believe me, I know all about that one - I was less worried about those who had chosen not to be active in this situation (I'm not referring to the current gemfields ERE here, something entirely unrelated) but more peeved at those who had mocked the efforts of the active ones....but then gladly held their hands out to receive the benefits. The story of the little red hen is pretty true to life - except that all the other animals get to eat the bread anyway.
Thing is Diesel - there is not really any such thing as status quo. Someone is always driving for change, be they sympathetic or antagonistic to you. That's a fact. The previous status quo was just jolted by people with the ability to wield organised power and who think a bush is more important than anything else already there. You were not affected but other people were, as will the future be.
I can understand that the future may be lesser concern to those whose days are advanced, they just want to spend the remainder of their days in peace but I'm sure you can understand that those who are likely to be around longer may have more cause for concern and feel more motivated to do something.
Anyway, no one is forcing you to be involved in anything. You do what makes you happy and I'll do what I think is right. No problems then?
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Never underestimate People Power... We stoped the QLD Government building a dam in the Mary Valley, we stoped Coal seam gas mining in areas in SE QLD and stoped them selling OUR assets and look at what People Power has done in Northern NSW.... No more 'old growth' logging and Coal Seam Gas mining and forced the NSW powers to be to change their minds on Fossicking at Wellingrove...
The way I look at it 'We are all clowns in the circus of life' some want to watch and some want to be a ringleader.... im with the ringleader... Oh and im a very Passionate and Proud Union member as well..... So I guess Diesel, you Don't like me ;)
Gemster.... beers
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I see Gemster understands my Little Red Hen analogy :)
Victoria and WA both have established Miners Rights, so they don’t need change.
I trust you realize that said rights did not just tumble from the sky along with the Ten Commandments?
Anyway, you are never going to agree with Gemster and I so any debate is pretty pointless from here. Don't trouble yourself with it, just enjoy your retirement :)
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You could probably say that the sky was falling in and Gemster would nod his head and agree with you Lefty. It is plain to see that he is your faithfull follower.
Yes, I am fully conversant with the history of both the Vic and WA Miners Rights, I hold the WA lifetime Right and have been a holder of the limited time Vic Right. Thanks for the reference to the ten commandments, but totally wasted on an atheist like myself.
You are right, I will never agree with you and as far as Gemster goes, he is a source of amusement to me. When I need a laugh I will search for a Gemster post - he's good value and every forum should have somebody like him.
I would like to keep this exchange going, but I'm heading up the gulf fishing for a month or so. You blokes carry on with your crusade or rebellion or whatever you want to call it and if Gemster is going to hold one of his "massive" street marches, please wait until I get back. I would hate to miss it.
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I would definitely look out the window to check first before I agreed... :D
Have fun fishing and don't forget to take some Bananas with you ...good for Snacks.. ;)
Laugh away... I couldn't give a rats ... Enjoy your 'retirement' my friend.... Classic ;D
Gemster..... beers
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I suppose everyone can have their 2 bobs worth
I have been a claim holder on the fields for 10 years.
I have been following this thread and feel that I must comment.
Lefty – firstly I understand that you have had a difficult time dealing with the current situation and the disappointment and frustration that goes along with it, Any person that has mining claims on the gemfields would agree that dealing with powers that be is challenging.
But
I have 2 questions and you do not need answer the first
1 did you accept the refund offered
2 Are you going to be pegging or buying another claim on the fields.
I believe that in the Qsma on the fields we have the best united voice that has been around for some time it is a pity that it took native title to bring to the forefront in the mining community.
They have access to the halls of power that I would not be able to get a as an individual.
I cede my right to the Qsma to try to negotiate and improve these conditions on my behalf.
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The comment that that I find hard to fathom is “I’m not sure what Diesel is afraid of”
Do you have an understanding of the requirements to hold and operate a mining claim under the current legislation? Work programs hours of work, safety requirements ect
If they wanted to stick to the current legislation and strictly enforce the letter of the law it would do a lot more damage to the fields than that caused by the minimal numbers affected by the introduction of the ERE areas. I have Looked at the maps.
It has the potential to cause more damage to the community as a whole.
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[size=78%]It’s the way of the world. We have become an I WANT society, sometimes we need to look outside our own blinkered view.[/size]
I support Diesel 110%
There are quite a few people from the fields on this forum and I have seen no comments posted.
[/size]If you have answered my second question yes, then I will be happy to continue this discussion over a beer one day,[size=78%]
I hate too see a great forum hijacked by political dicussion
Cheers
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did you accept the refund offered
Not yet, I'm still considering my options. I can apparently get my money back - though my dealings with the department lead me to suspect this is probably not such a simple process - but I can never get back my three years spent jumping through hoops. Legal and above board one day, then suddenly illegal the next. Note that this comment is tied to the next one.
Are you going to be pegging or buying another claim on the fields
What do you think you would do Garry? Given what just happened and after all this time, I don't yet have great confidence that if I were to do that, these somewhat arbitrary boundaries might not simply be amended in a few years time, possibly with the same result. Perhaps you might be next?
I believe that in the Qsma on the fields we have the best united voice that has been around for some time it is a pity that it took native title to bring to the forefront in the mining community.
They have access to the halls of power that I would not be able to get a as an individual.
I cede my right to the Qsma to try to negotiate and improve these conditions on my behalf.
I think there might be a little bit of confusion here. As far as I have seen, the QSMA do a fine job on the field - I have not suggested they be supplanted. I'm talking about broader issues, though obviously including this one.
Do you have an understanding of the requirements to hold and operate a mining claim under the current legislation? Work programs hours of work, safety requirements ect
Yes, I'm aware of all those things Garry. We have been around the traps out there for about 40 years, including holding small claims. I can understand that people hold concerns that anyone speaking out too loudly might cause them to come in wielding the big compliance stick. Though the ability to actually enforce everything to the letter would require a rather significant permanent boost to their existing resources. In my job, the letter of the legislation states that it is more or less illegal to do significant portions of what I must do for the job to be done - but if I didn't do it, there would be no point showing up for work. 20 years later, I'm still there. I think you'll find this goes for plenty of places.
This is where I can't work Diesel out - first he says he's worried about this issue, then he says he isn't.
It’s the way of the world. We have become an I WANT society, sometimes we need to look outside our own blinkered view
Versus an aggregation of "as long as I'm still ok, everyone else can go to hell" individuals. Thankfully, I think those who are really like this at heart are a minority.
There are quite a few people from the fields on this forum and I have seen no comments posted.
I'm just glad I've been able to start bringing it to people's attention, otherwise nobody here would know yet.
But for your interest, here's three people with claims on the field commenting on the matter (http://www.gemologyonline.com/Forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=22558), though on another forum. One of these people has taken the hit.
I'm glad you weren't affected Garry and I can fully understand the worry people have that a slew of regulations - including plenty that were very obviously drafted by people who know nothing about digging for sapphires in the CQ bush and who care even less - might be enforced to the letter. I just don't agree that silence is the best protection for everyone.
Cheers
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Yes, I am fully conversant with the history of both the Vic and WA Miners Rights, I hold the WA lifetime Right and have been a holder of the limited time Vic Right
And you think...........?
Thanks for the reference to the ten commandments, but totally wasted on an atheist like myself.
Well I'm not a church-goer myself, I just like metaphors, they can say a lot to those with eyes to look and ears to listen.
I would like to keep this exchange going, but I'm heading up the gulf fishing for a month or so.
Have fun! :) Just keep an eye out for those big snapping handbags, they are everywhere in the water up there.
Cheers
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Here's a few comments, cross-posted... (http://www.gemologyonline.com/Forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=22558)
I feel your pain mate! We just had a call telling us a claim we have had for a year is now not recognised due to the EPA. Funny how people can dig on the surface yet we can't underground. I need to find out more info. I suppose we are lucky our original claim is ok.
Hey Lefty, a good means of getting some high powered support, is to contact Central Highlands regional council. They rely on the rates revenue from the gemmies, and would be stunned to hear what is potentially happening.
Baz.
Hi lefty I have just emerged from the swamp and starting to look at life again so have just caught up with a few threads on forum.
When i had my claim at reward some years ago a certain farmer was doing his best to get rid of miners he was going to fence of the bottom road to reward and was told every time he put it up it would be cut down, I believe he was stopped as this was an escape route in case of fire etc.
At this time he illegally poisoned a large area of trees by aerial spraying on the Reward Road. Although he was taken to task nothing happened.
Under the environmental act this was a crime
This is here say but it was mentioned that his wife was a relation of some politician.
I am assuming this is the same ankle that is causing you problems.
Look for an investigate Journalist.
Keep the pressure up
Remember the Eureka Stockade miners verse land owners gentry and politicians all wanting the wealth of the miners but forcing restrictions and costs on them.
Sultana Hill would make a good rallying ground
Cheers
Follow the link for verification of authenticity. So as you can see, there are people on the field with such concerns.
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Now, to clarify something. There have been understandable concerns raised here about the possible consequences of "yanking the tail of the dog", in reference to the Department of Mines and Natural Resources who administrate the gemfields.
My understanding thus far is that this particular issue actually has very little to do with the DMNR. What is occurring is entirely by the design and at the behest of another government entity altogether - the Department of Environment and Heritage Protection. The DMNR has not created the ERE's, the legislation has merely been handed to them across departments and the mines office in Emerald is in the unfortunate position of having it now within their role to inform a number of people that somebody else's legislation has rendered their tenures invalid, and to ensure that no pegging of claims occurs in these new restricted areas in the future. This is what I have been led to believe by the mines office in Emerald.
Thus, any "argument" with the government department would not be had with the DMNR but with the DEHP. The DEHP do not administer/enforce small mining and fossicking legislation, that's not their job.
The DEHP apparently believe that their environmental no-go zone legislation overrides and supplants small mining legislation within a designated small mining and fossicking area. Whether that turns out to be the case will depend upon how much opposition there is. No opposition - no problems, the precedent is set.
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As for myself, I'll need to get back out and have a closer look but I don't recall seeing any threatened tree species that I'm aware of growing on my applications. In fast, one of them has hardly any trees. But as far as the DEHP are concerned, I'm some distance inside some kind of threatened forest or something such. My argument to them that it is not true and that if they would only come out here and have an actual look on the ground themselves seems to be falling on deaf ears and the Emerald mines office - who have been quite helpful by the way - told me that they believe that the DEHP would want me to shell out some significant sum to engage the services of a professional botanist before they would even consider my argument.
If the fact that they seem able to render applications and existing tenures null and void on the basis of probably inaccurate information as to where plants do and do not grow does not worry you blokes that have not been affected, then I'm not sure what will.
Again, I'd need to get back out and have a closer look but I seem to recall a decent-sized stand of what I think is probably the plant in question growing fairly close to the community of claims at the Washpool. At this point I'd be thinking there's no reason they can't move or expand the ERE boundaries whenever the feel justified.
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I really should change the title of that thread I posted in the other place - at the time I didn't know that wasn't by done by them, just pushed through them.
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This is where I can't work Diesel out - first he says he's worried about this issue, then he says he isn't.
Hmmm, when I first read that I thought WTF, I don't recall saying I was worried about something and then saying that I wasn't. I've gone back over my posts and I can't find it anywhere.
Any chance you can point me in the direction of where I said these things Lefty.
No, don't waste your time - we both know it didn't happen.
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My initial response to this thread was that it is an interesting topic and although I do not agree that we need a “new voice”, I thought that it is an issue that was worthy of discussion. It is plain to see that the thread is just another platform for Lefty to air his displeasure about the way he has been treated or should I say perceived to have been treated. He has another thread going regarding the same displeasure and we now even have a link to another forum with yet again, the same thing. You made a couple of comments on that forum that are really bordering on the ridiculous.
“I've been in touch with the Queensland Sapphire Miners Association, we're still looking into it further. They surely can't implement this thing to the full extent or there would be another Eureka Stockade”
Are you really suggesting that if you don’t get your own way, you and your band of “followers’ erect a stockade and the Southern Cross flag and take up arms against the government? Hmmm?
“This sounds like an organised attempt to stamp out small-scale mining!”
To even suggest that your treatment is the start of some diabolical plot by the government to stamp out small scale mining takes the cake.
Methinks you need to get a grip on reality Lefty and then maybe your whole saga would be a bit more believable.
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I thought you'd gone fishing :)
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Sometimes the best laid plans come unstuck Lefty - all packed ready to go and my mate phones to say he has been called back to work for a couple of weeks. No big deal, always another time.
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Are you really suggesting that if you don’t get your own way, you and your band of “followers’ erect a stockade and the Southern Cross flag and take up arms against the government? Hmmm?
Take a chill pill and look at the date of the post you're referring to - it was made just after the initial communique from the department. Since then, further information has come to light showing that the new no-go zones miss most tenures. But the actual extent of them was uncertain at the time - all we knew was that no-mining zones had suddenly been implemented across the gemfields.
If they had in fact wiped out a significant portion of tenures, I really don't think the fact that things are often not done to the letter of the (sometimes impractical) legislation would have prevented an angry collective outburst. Perhaps you would have crawled into your hole and hoped really hard for it to all just go away but I'd be very surprised if everybody else just rolled over.
To even suggest that your treatment is the start of some diabolical plot by the government to stamp out small scale mining takes the cake.
As above. Also, if you have never had any interest in anything outside your own hole then I guess it's not surprising that you would posses a pretty limited understanding of how things actually work more broadly.
Methinks you need to get a grip on reality Lefty and then maybe your whole saga would be a bit more believable.
I'll assume that you nonetheless can't be so blind and deaf as to actually be implying that I'm making all this up?
All things considered - if you don't care and aren't concerned, why do you keep coming back here with angry-sounding comments? You seem to be using this thread as a platform to voice your displeasure that others don't think the way you do.
It's hard to say this without sounding offensive Diesel but I feel that while I have been one of the first to bring to people's attention something that is very obviously an important issue and to keep passing information as it comes to hand, you on the other hand have done almost nothing but bleat incessantly about how you think that anyone concerned about these and other broader issues is an idiot. Thank you for pointing out that many people on the field are worried about the big compliance stick - but since then you've done little but spew bile.
Anyway, I'll keep passing on information as it comes to hand.
Cheers
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I thought you'd gone fishing :)
Maybe the fishings better here. ;)
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You just don’t seem to get it Lefty, too wrapped up in your own problem to even remotely consider the damage that your outlandish remarks could have out here.
Consider this, a bloke down the track from me has decided to put his claim on the market and a mildly rich patch of dirt it is. He has put a realistic figure on his asking price and optimistically hopes to lure a potential buyer. As is the way of the world these days, most people will perform due diligence checks before parting with their hard earned cash and part of that investigative process is seeking information on the internet.
Lo and behold, said potential buyers come across completely false and misleading information relating to the future of small scale mining in Qld and being oblivious to the fact that the information is total rubbish, they decide against joining our mining community. A few years back, it was a seller’s market out here. There was a lot of money about and claims sold easily, but not so easily now. Those who want to sell and move on for whatever reason are relying on potential buyers from interstate who want a “tree change”. Your remarks do not help to attract potential buyers, in fact they do the complete opposite.
Whilst ever you make these false statements in relation to the future of small scale mining in Qld, I will oppose you. I have that right as someone who has spent the past quarter of a century promoting the positive aspects of the CQ Gemfields.
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beers Lefty.. Keep up the Good work Keeping us informed.... Don't worry about the Moaners out there... I think by the sounds of it he isn't a miner anyhow... just a retiree living in the field....not free but easy ::).... and Who would want to buy into a lease knowing that it could be taken from you at any time in the Future...
Gemster.... beers beers
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I would remind ALL members to please consider their words when posting and try to keep things civil and constructive.
In my opinion, this thread is veering dangerously into personal attack and is just not what ALF is here for.
I understand these issues generate strong opinion but this is getting out of hand. You know who you are - I am respectfully asking all of you to tone it down.
Thank you
Leah (ADMIN)
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Apologies Leah - I really didn't expect this thread to head in the direction that it did :(
Is it ok if it stays open just as a conduit for information? I really do feel that this and related issues are very important to us all, although everyone is entitled to take their own views.
IMO, the biggest threat is the level of uncertainty caused by the likes of what has just occurred. The sellers market has fallen away due to the uncertainty over Native Title - believe me, I'm one of those who ended up being caught up in it - and just as that looks to have a possible time horizon for settlement, we now have this new issue - if I buy a claim (or peg one) will these suddenly materialized no-go zones be extended in the future and nullify existing tenures - as they have just done already?
Anyway, I will go with whatever the site administrators/owners decide.
Hopefully some new information will emerge late this week or early next week following the QSMA meeting with the DMNR over this new issue.
Cheers all.
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Anyway, I will go with whatever the site administrators/owners decide.
No worries - just keep it friendly.
And I would suggest generally assisting those organisations who are already out there arguing for your interests. If NAPFA have been negotiating on these issues on behalf of fossickers/prospectors, then it is probably more effective to join up with them, work to steer/adust the agenda if necessary and add your voice to theirs rather than going out and trying to start again from scratch. Likewise with the QSMA - if they already are negotiating in that space, then help them.
It seems to me that there are already organisations out there working on these issues - if their voice is not loud enough, then add yours and make it louder. Governments dont tend to communicate with individuals very well (a single voice is easily ignored) so if there is already an organisation that they are talking to that is supposed to represent your interests, then make sure they do so effectively. And of course, this will be best done by constructive and respectful communication all round.
This is not to say we cannot lobby individually and the National Parks community consultation is a good example where you need as much feedback from as many people as possible. But also make sure your lobby groups are as effective as they can be which means they need our support as well.
Cheers
Leah
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And I would suggest generally assisting those organisations who are already out there arguing for your interests. If NAPFA have been negotiating on these issues on behalf of fossickers/prospectors, then it is probably more effective to join up with them, work to steer/adust the agenda if necessary and add your voice to theirs rather than going out and trying to start again from scratch. Likewise with the QSMA - if they already are negotiating in that space, then help them.
It seems to me that there are already organisations out there working on these issues - if their voice is not loud enough, then add yours and make it louder. Governments dont tend to communicate with individuals very well (a single voice is easily ignored) so if there is already an organisation that they are talking to that is supposed to represent your interests, then make sure they do so effectively. And of course, this will be best done by constructive and respectful communication all round.
Been doing all these things already :) I have been a QSMA member for a couple of years and have been in communication with their executive body over this and other issues over that time and will continue to be. They are passionate advocates for small miners, the field and the communities on it and their efforts are to be applauded. I've said a couple of times that I was not on a crusade to supplant them - I was merely thinking of the bigger picture. Somehow, that message got lost in the discussion that followed.
Anyway, I will continue to pass on information as it comes to hand for all those with interest.
Cheers
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question to all
i didnt think we were allowed to live on our claims
and as a claim holder you had to mine a certain percent per year.
as per conversation i had with the mines lady at emerald???
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question to all
i didnt think we were allowed to live on our claims
and as a claim holder you had to mine a certain percent per year.
as per conversation i had with the mines lady at emerald???
As the QSMA pres told me Snappa, these things change so fast sometimes that even they have trouble keeping up with new legislation. When I applied, I recall you were allowed to live on your claim as long as you were actually mining it, not merely using it as a residential address. Not sure how much per year you had to mine - it was a few years ago now - but the department did not prescribe a minimum number of hours, it simply stated that mining must be in evidence. But that may well have changed now.
Finally received a response from the Queensland Herbarium but I haven't time to read it now. It looks like there will be substantial amounts of information there that won't mean much without a translator.
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Interestingly, one thing the email from the Herbarium did appear to say was that the information regarding the ERE's has been publicly available for around 15 years. The DMNR office in Emerald tells me that they have only been aware of it a short time and the information was not in their database until very recently. Left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing :)
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Interestingly, one thing the email from the Herbarium did appear to say was that the information regarding the ERE's has been publicly available for around 15 years. The DMNR office in Emerald tells me that they have only been aware of it a short time and the information was not in their database until very recently. Left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing :)
Might be publicly available but not advertised or easy to locate.
Think of council plans in Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy.
That data base may link up with this document.
http://aussielapidaryforum.com/forum/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=14
See map page 21.
:o
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Ok, the QSMA has had their meeting with the DMNR, good news is that the boundaries of the ERE should neither expand nor move in the future. Only received a short email so I don't know any more than that but lets hope it stays that way.
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At least you are getting some answers Lefty... Lets hope the QSMA and DMNR are correct and these hidden boundaries do not expand in the future.... ::)
Any idea how many claims are affected by this ERA thing?
Gemster..... beers
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Luckily there's only about a dozen Gemster. At least we know a bit more now.
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About 12 Claimholders lives affected, and their Families .. :( Here's another Example of the way they are Working....
Down here the QLD Government is Taking peoples Homes off them for road construction and They are only compensating people on Their Value ($850k).. not Market Value ( $1.6M ).... one fellow stands to loose about $900K. cause the Gov only wants to give him what They think is fair >:( He only bought the place 12 months ago and wasn't told anything about the new road.... ::)
Gemster..... beers